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Author Topic: Priority bus route Bristol to Bath  (Read 1255 times)
bradshaw
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« on: October 23, 2021, 11:13:47 am »

To be announced in next week’s budget.

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  England's city regions are set to receive billions of pounds to improve public transport in next week's Budget.
 West of England (£540m): A fully prioritised bus route between Bristol and Bath

From https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2021, 11:46:16 am »

It's 23km, bus station to bus station, from Bristol to Bath, so £540 million would equate to about £24 million per km. That would be about five times the cost per km of reopening the Borders Railway. Note also that the article refers to 'prioritised' rather than 'segregated'. I thing we have to conclude that there's more to this than some paint and traffic signals!

I worry what effect this might have on the RYR (Restoring Your Railway) proposals for St Annes Park and Saltford, or indeed for the Callington Greenway... or indeed whether this turns out to be another thinly-disguised road-building scheme.
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stuving
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2021, 11:53:46 am »

It's 23km, bus station to bus station, from Bristol to Bath, so £540 million would equate to about £24 million per km. That would be about five times the cost per km of reopening the Borders Railway. Note also that the article refers to 'prioritised' rather than 'segregated'. I thing we have to conclude that there's more to this than some paint and traffic signals!

I read that as £540M is the total for the region, and the Bristol-Bath Bus route is just item from a list of projects. Some other regions get two items listed, but they will presumably have longer lists too.
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TonyK
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2021, 07:19:17 pm »

It's 23km, bus station to bus station, from Bristol to Bath, so £540 million would equate to about £24 million per km. That would be about five times the cost per km of reopening the Borders Railway. Note also that the article refers to 'prioritised' rather than 'segregated'. I thing we have to conclude that there's more to this than some paint and traffic signals!

I worry what effect this might have on the RYR (Restoring Your Railway) proposals for St Annes Park and Saltford, or indeed for the Callington Greenway... or indeed whether this turns out to be another thinly-disguised road-building scheme.

I worry that this may be MetroBust II.
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broadgage
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2021, 10:46:39 pm »

Buses are most useful transport solutions for local or short distance journeys, and also for some longer opportunities when passenger numbers are very limited and do not justify a railway line.

I can not support longer distance bus routes for significant passenger numbers, as a cheaper alternative to use of an existing rail line, or even building a new line.

Metrobust, new improved version ?
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It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2021, 11:33:05 am »

I'd presume that figure includes things like the proposed bus priority scheme on the A4018, pedestrianisation of Park St, making permanent the temporary pedestrian schemes on eg Cotham Hill and Princess Victoria Street, and of course similar throughout the region.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2021, 01:31:31 pm »

I'd presume that figure includes things like the proposed bus priority scheme on the A4018, pedestrianisation of Park St, making permanent the temporary pedestrian schemes on eg Cotham Hill and Princess Victoria Street, and of course similar throughout the region.

I'm sure you're right about other bus priority schemes. The pedestrianisation schemes however are presumably considered to be 'active travel' rather than public transport. I hear noises from the walking and cycling lobby that WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s bid for additional active travel funding failed. Presumably the detail of all this will emerge over the coming weeks!

New 'priority' bus corridors are sure to be branded 'MetroBus'. That is a tainted brand for many of us here, but perhaps not for the travelling public.
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TonyK
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2021, 02:18:46 pm »


New 'priority' bus corridors are sure to be branded 'MetroBus'. That is a tainted brand for many of us here, but perhaps not for the travelling public.

For the people using the service from Hengrove via Knowle West, it is known as "the bus". Many of the LA park and ride customers have other names for it, especially when it has to go the long way round because of the crumbling infrastructure. I have only known people from Bradley Stoke to speak well of it, and they would have spoke weller of a tram network. I don't know anyone from Lyde Green.

For me, the Temple Meads to Long Ashton route will always be the Bristol Airport Expressway, one of the few true green initiatives the city has managed, whisking me and my beloved without delay or belching diesel fumes from anywhere in Bristol to the start of a journey to somewhere with decent public transport.
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stuving
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2021, 02:24:57 pm »

To be announced in next week’s budget.

Yes, but isn't this Rishi continuing George Osborne's favourite trick of announcing other minsters' decisionsas his own, and reannouncing previous ones, just because they involve spending money? This is from some DfT» (Department for Transport - about) guidance on City Region Sustainable Transport Settlements, dated 12/8/2021:
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Objectives

The following 8 large metropolitan areas are mainstays of our work to level up in England:

    West Midlands
    Greater Manchester
    Liverpool City Region
    the North East
    the Tees Valley
    West Yorkshire
    Sheffield City Region
    the West of England around Bristol and Bath

As the National Infrastructure Assessment – and our response to it, the National Infrastructure Strategy – agree, one important weakness of many of these great city regions, affecting their productivity, is the quality of their local transport networks, particularly public transport, compared to London and their counterparts in Europe.

This new City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement (CRSTS), which is an unprecedented investment in local transport networks, is a major driver for significant change.

This new fund stems from the announcement we made in 2019 that the 8 eligible English city regions would receive £4.2 billion of additional funding for local transport networks. That new money is at the core of this fund and should allow city regions to commence transformational change.
...

So, if that's still "new money" - and even "additional" - add some real new money*  to the total, and approve a few things already in the pipeline ... and that's something to go in Wednesday's budget speech. Quick! organise an official leak! (Or was it an unofficial announcement?)

*Or we may find it's also old "new money" too, of course.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 11:24:12 pm by stuving » Logged
Reading General
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2021, 02:38:26 pm »



New 'priority' bus corridors are sure to be branded 'MetroBus'. That is a tainted brand for many of us here, but perhaps not for the travelling public.

In Reading we’ve gone for BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) as the title of new and planned bus lanes along roads that pass where nobody lives. The bus company like to put ‘track’ or ‘wave’ after particular routes but they are simply limited stop buses that don’t serve much purpose outside of the standard Monday to Friday working hours, they also come with rather complicated routings. I’ve never been a fan of branding, build something fine but don’t try to sell it as a glamorous lifestyle choice. If it improves things for several bus routes I think people are relatively happy but branding a section of road is ridiculous.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2021, 02:52:06 pm »

It’s £1.5billion of new money across the areas. Sunak also said that this is the first time the actual amounts per area have been announced, so new ‘actual’ amounts
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TonyK
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« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2021, 05:16:34 pm »

It’s £1.5billion of new money across the areas. Sunak also said that this is the first time the actual amounts per area have been announced, so new ‘actual’ amounts

Probably to include £80 million to rebuild the line to Portishead.
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grahame
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2021, 06:41:47 pm »

It’s £1.5billion of new money across the areas. Sunak also said that this is the first time the actual amounts per area have been announced, so new ‘actual’ amounts

Probably to include £80 million to rebuild the line to Portishead.

And let's hope that's money for shovels in the ground, rails on sleepers, platforms and signalling ... and not just investigations, consultations, enquires and legal fees.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2021, 06:50:31 pm »

I'd presume that figure includes things like the proposed bus priority scheme on the A4018, pedestrianisation of Park St, making permanent the temporary pedestrian schemes on eg Cotham Hill and Princess Victoria Street, and of course similar throughout the region.

I'm sure you're right about other bus priority schemes. The pedestrianisation schemes however are presumably considered to be 'active travel' rather than public transport.
Yes. Well spotted. I've got so used to them being lumped in together, 'active and public transport', that I'd forgotten or failed to notice this doesn't mention 'active'.
Quote
I hear noises from the walking and cycling lobby that WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s bid for additional active travel funding failed. Presumably the detail of all this will emerge over the coming weeks!
This is probably a shame but not a huge surprise.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2021, 06:56:07 pm »

On the Metrobus name, my son (17) recently had to go to Bottle Yard studios in deepest south Bristol. He used the Metrobus but even before he'd used it, just looking at the timetable and website he commented that it's really just a bus like all the other buses. Apparently it doesn't even have special tickets anymore (or at least, a day ticket from the ordinary First buses is valid on Metrobuses and vice versa). So I'd say it's not so much a tainted name as a non-name. Or rather, as TonyK says, people are (no longer, if they ever were) taking the name as an indication of anything other than a bus.
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