Two trains collide near Salisbury - 31 Oct 21

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

The human cost aside, the financial burden of this derailment must be... considerable.

[ChrisB]

...and a BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) officer was videoing recovery of at least one of the carriages because...? I would expect a BTP presence to deter 'trophy hunters' but I hardly think filming the recovery operation would be part of their remit. I am of course prepared to be corrected on this.

BTP will be there also investigating for criminal activity which may have lead to the accident, the video quite posible will go on their case file to be used should the need arise.

Accidents like these are investigated by the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about), BTP, RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and the ToCs usually the industry (NR and ToC's) is done as a joint investigation and is always subservient to the RAIB, ORR and BTP who have statutory powers, in the case of BTP and ORR they can arrest, charge and present a case to the CPS

I would hope one of them will include an investigation as to why almost completely spurious information was putvout to the press immediately after the accident.

No hitting ‘something’ on the track by the rear GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) carriage
No 7 minute gap before the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) train then hit the GWR
No signal failure after the GWR train ‘derailed’

One might ask whether someone or somebody was thinking there may be need to cover something up…it was quoted by some MSM as coming from Network Rail. Even the BTP quoted from it in initial TV interviews that night.

There was also twitter comment at the time that an unnamed member of staff had passed a staff log of some description to part(s) of the MSM. The S*n was mentioned it one twitter thread I saw.

This is the first time I think this has happened. Usually waiting for ORR or RAIB to make an initial announcement. Something (almost) got out of control & wasn’t stopped quickly enough.

[grahame]

I would hope one of them will include an investigation as to why almost completely spurious information was putvout to the press immediately after the accident.

Early information about what's going on tends to confused and make assumptions which can be wrong. But this was astonishing. Thank goodness we have very, very few "source" incidents which form the base for this sort of thing and, yes, we should learn.  We have certainly had the danger of jumping to conclusions very starkly illustrated.

[TaplowGreen]

The human cost aside, the financial burden of this derailment must be... considerable.

....which will inevitably be borne by the taxpayer, legal expenses, compensation and all.

[eXPassenger]

...and a BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) officer was videoing recovery of at least one of the carriages because...? I would expect a BTP presence to deter 'trophy hunters' but I hardly think filming the recovery operation would be part of their remit. I am of course prepared to be corrected on this.

BTP will be there also investigating for criminal activity which may have lead to the accident, the video quite posible will go on their case file to be used should the need arise.

Accidents like these are investigated by the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about), BTP, RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and the ToCs usually the industry (NR and ToC's) is done as a joint investigation and is always subservient to the RAIB, ORR and BTP who have statutory powers, in the case of BTP and ORR they can arrest, charge and present a case to the CPS

I would hope one of them will include an investigation as to why almost completely spurious information was putvout to the press immediately after the accident.

No hitting ‘something’ on the track by the rear GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) carriage
No 7 minute gap before the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) train then hit the GWR
No signal failure after the GWR train ‘derailed’

One might ask whether someone or somebody was thinking there may be need to cover something up…it was quoted by some MSM as coming from Network Rail. Even the BTP quoted from it in initial TV interviews that night.

There was also twitter comment at the time that an unnamed member of staff had passed a staff log of some description to part(s) of the MSM. The S*n was mentioned it one twitter thread I saw.

This is the first time I think this has happened. Usually waiting for ORR or RAIB to make an initial announcement. Something (almost) got out of control & wasn’t stopped quickly enough.

I think you are reading too much into this.  After an incident like this information will be very mixed.  I can see how the GWR driver reported that 'his rear unit had hit something' since he did not know at the time that he had been hit by the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) train.  The 7 minutes appears to have been from passenger comments.  From NR's viewpoint they had lost the signals when the trains chewed up the material in the tunnel.

In the current media age you are criticised if you make early statements that are overtaken be events and criticised if you make no statements, so there is no easy answer.

I remember similar confusion in the early hours of the Scottish accident and that was far simpler.

[JayMac]

As for the 'staff log' being passed to the media that doesn't mean it was a member of rail staff who passed on such info. The TyrellCheck information system is available to many outside the industry.

[stuving]

I would hope one of them will include an investigation as to why almost completely spurious information was putvout to the press immediately after the accident.

No hitting ‘something’ on the track by the rear GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) carriage
No 7 minute gap before the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) train then hit the GWR
No signal failure after the GWR train ‘derailed’

One might ask whether someone or somebody was thinking there may be need to cover something up…it was quoted by some MSM as coming from Network Rail. Even the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) quoted from it in initial TV interviews that night.

There was also twitter comment at the time that an unnamed member of staff had passed a staff log of some description to part(s) of the MSM. The S*n was mentioned it one twitter thread I saw.

This is the first time I think this has happened. Usually waiting for ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) or RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) to make an initial announcement. Something (almost) got out of control & wasn’t stopped quickly enough.

I was a bit puzzled that so many people - including on here and on railforums - took the initial "statement" as gospel and tried deducing everything else from it. Or rather second-hand reports of something from NR^» (Network Rail - home page) - I don't think I've yet seen the NR press information behind them. I imagined the source data said something like "initial reports say..." , which is often not passed on. But in this case it soon became clear some of it was wrong.

As you may have spotted by now, I'm instinctively suspicious of second-hand reports, via the media of any kind. Hence I prefer get the source information where possible, even after a bit of a delay. Of course media (and other) comment on that is generally needed to point out where the source is, for example, trying to hide something.

I can't see that it's in any way unusual for NR to put out an early explanation of what has happened, or even for it to be not just incomplete but wrong. But they do need to flag that clearly, and might do better to put that out themselves rather than relying on the media or insiders leaking stuff. What I saw that was found leaked was on Politics For All (maybe not quite mainstream?), and was an incident log from Wessex Integrated Control Centre at Basingstoke:


So right from the start the basic sequence of events was wrong. That looks as if it was concocted from the drivers' initial radio calls, and remember that the way 1F30 split will have given that driver a false impression of what had happened (until he had a good look outside). Add some more reports from the first MOM^▸ (Mobile Operations Manager) on site and some signallers, and you can get what was put out.

Of course it should not have been put out in that form. Someone ought to have cut it to the minimum known to be true, that there had been a collision involving two trains and the reported injuries. NR really should know by now that once BTP and RAIB are involved it becomes almost impossible for them to make further comment on the accident itself, even to correct their own errors.

[stuving]

As a further comment on that WICC incident message, I've just noticed it is timed at 19:21 and marked "NEW". But the collision was at 18:42, and first reports must have come in in minutes. So why is that message so much later but apparently with only the first reports in? Is it not what it appears to be?

[Electric train]

I can't see that it's in any way unusual for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) to put out an early explanation of what has happened, or even for it to be not just incomplete but wrong. But they do need to flag that clearly, and might do better to put that out themselves rather than relying on the media or insiders leaking stuff. What I saw that was found leaked was on Politics For All (maybe not quite mainstream?), and was an incident log from Wessex Integrated Control Centre at Basingstoke:


So right from the start the basic sequence of events was wrong. That looks as if it was concocted from the drivers' initial radio calls, and remember that the way 1F30 split will have given that driver a false impression of what had happened (until he had a good look outside). Add some more reports from the first MOM^▸ (Mobile Operations Manager) on site and some signallers, and you can get what was put out.

Of course it should not have been put out in that form. Someone ought to have cut it to the minimum known to be true, that there had been a collision involving two trains and the reported injuries. NR really should known by now that once BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) and RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) are involved it becomes almost impossible for them to make further comment on the accident itself, even to correct their own errors.

As a further comment on that WICC incident message, I've just noticed it is timed at 19:21 and marked "NEW". But the collision was at 18:42, and first reports must have come in in minutes. So why is that message so much later but apparently with only the first reports in? Is it not what it appears to be?

Reports in NR fault control logs appear in the chronological order they are received, they may not be in the actual sequence.   For 90% plus of the faults and incidents that fault control deal with it works fine.

The 'machinery' to respond to these types on incident is well documented in the industry, moving from Bronze to Silver and then to Gold Command although the escalation through this process is quite quick it does not move at the same pace as the media.  The command structure in an incident like this would focus on preservation of life (ie support for blue light services), safety, welfare, service recovery / diversion / busitution, comms not being a top priority 

[TonyK]

BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) will be there also investigating for criminal activity which may have lead to the accident, the video quite posible will go on their case file to be used should the need arise.

Accidents like these are investigated by the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about), BTP, RAIB^▸ (Rail Accident Investigation Branch), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and the ToCs usually the industry (NR and ToC's) is done as a joint investigation and is always subservient to the RAIB, ORR and BTP who have statutory powers, in the case of BTP and ORR they can arrest, charge and present a case to the CPS

It costs pretty much nothing to gather that bit of evidence, certainly when compared with trying the get it after the train has been fully removed. It will show the damage to the carriage at the moment of recovery, so that anything cause in transporting it can be discounted. It will probably be looked at once, if at all.

[paul7575]

It’s been mentioned in the WNXX^▸ (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) forum that the rear GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) unit, 158763, has already been declared a write off.

Paul

[bradshaw]

Line reopening Tuesday

   Following two weeks of the line being closed, Network Rail will spend a full day using its leaf-busting Rail Head Treatment Trains to jet wash the tracks free of any debris or leaf mulch. A series of test trains will also run on the new infrastructure to check it is operating correctly before passenger services begin on Tuesday morning.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-south-western-railway-and-great-western-railway-joint-statement-salisbury-railway-to-reopen-fully-from-tuesday-16-november

New photo on Twitter
https://twitter.com/networkrailwssx/status/1459112693445672967?s=21

[Red Squirrel]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) news release in full:

Network Rail, South Western Railway and Great Western Railway joint statement: Salisbury railway to reopen fully from Tuesday, 16 November



Following last week’s accident, Network Rail, South Western Railway and Great Western Railway today announce that trains through Salisbury will begin running again on Tuesday, 16 November.

The rail industry has been working together to clear the line and make it safe to run trains again, with repair works set to be complete by Monday. Following two weeks of the line being closed, Network Rail will spend a full day using its leaf-busting Rail Head Treatment Trains to jet wash the tracks free of any debris or leaf mulch. A series of test trains will also run on the new infrastructure to check it is operating correctly before passenger services begin on Tuesday morning.

Network Rail’s route director for Wessex, Mark Killick, said: “I really appreciate how patient everyone has been with us over the past week and a half, from customers who have had their journeys disrupted, to our neighbours who have had cranes outside their houses, London Road closed for a period, and people working 24 hours a day to repair the railway right in the middle of their neighbourhood.

“That work is going to continue until Monday, as we finish replacing damaged equipment and making sure the railway is fit for action again.

“Our railway is one of the safest in the world and when a rare incident like this happens, we have to find out exactly what went wrong. That’s why we’re working closely with the Rail Accident Investigation Branch, British Transport Police and Office of Rail and Road on their investigations and we will be transparent and open with everyone when we know more about exactly what caused this.”

Claire Mann, Managing Director of South Western Railway, said: “This has been a difficult time for all those affected by last Sunday’s incident and I’d like to thank the Salisbury community, our customers and colleagues for all their help both on the night and over the last ten days.

“Many people rely on our services every day and I am sorry for the disruption this incident has caused and am grateful for their ongoing patience. We have worked tirelessly with Network Rail and our industry partners to reopen the railway and I look forward to welcoming customers back to our services on Tuesday”.

Mark Hopwood, Managing Director of Great Western Railway, said: “Our staff have been overwhelmed by the support shown by customers and the community over the past ten days. The incident last Sunday was challenging for everyone involved, and we are grateful for everyone’s support and patience in the days and weeks since.

“The rail industry has put every effort into reopening the railway as soon as possible, and we’re looking forward to customers returning from 16 November.”

The accident involving an SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) train and a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) train, occurred on Sunday 31 October, blocking the line just outside the Fisherton Tunnel, where routes from London and Southampton merge on their way into Salisbury.

Since then, the line between Salisbury and Andover has been blocked, with SWR and GWR providing alternative travel arrangements through diversions or rail replacement services. 

Network Rail has been working with partners from across the industry to reopen the railway. So far, five damaged train carriages have been craned out from the accident site, which is in a cutting below the level of the surrounding area near London Road, in the Fisherton area of Salisbury. Almost 1,500 sleepers – the cross-ties that support the track – are being replaced, along with three sets of points, that allow trains to move from one track to another. In addition, 1,000 yards of new track is being laid in the tunnel to provide a smoother ride for passengers.

Signalling equipment including track circuits – which tell us where trains are –  are also being repaired, replaced and thoroughly-tested before the line reopens.

To support passengers’ journeys, buses are running from Salisbury to Andover for South Western Railway customers, and from Salisbury to Romsey for Great Western Railway, with tickets accepted on diversionary routes via Reading.

While London Road was closed over the bridge, a minibus provided transport for neighbours who needed to get round the block, and two local meetings were held to keep the community updated on the work.

Source: Network Rail

[stuving]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) news release in full:

The rail industry has been working together to clear the line and make it safe to run trains again, with repair works set to be complete by Monday. Following two weeks of the line being closed, Network Rail will spend a full day using its leaf-busting Rail Head Treatment Trains to jet wash the tracks free of any debris or leaf mulch. A series of test trains will also run on the new infrastructure to check it is operating correctly before passenger services begin on Tuesday morning.

Source: Network Rail

Well, maybe not a full day. After at least ten RHTT^▸ (Rail Head Treatment Train) passes through Tunnel Junction today, the first SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) proving train (5Z00) is currently sitting at SAL and due off in a minute or two. But that wasn't the first train through in service - an empty aggregate train to Whatley got that sticker at 14:15 (727U).

[stuving]

So far so good, if late. 5Z00 has got to Romsey and back, then Andover and back, without coming across any missing bits of track. Because it gets timed at Salisbury five times, and Tunnel Junction eight, and was about 90 minutes late, poor old RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website) has been struggling to match actual progress with the timetable. 5Z00 has already set out on its second double round trip, so it's looking good for tomorrow.