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Author Topic: Two trains collide near Salisbury - 31 Oct 21  (Read 21645 times)
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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2021, 06:24:59 »

The RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) are on site and I suspect the signalling system will be one of the things they will be investigating as a priority.

Not just the signalling, the GWR (Great Western Railway) train driver eye witness evidence will be key also the train black box and Forward Facing CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) (if fitted), the physical condition of the track, tunnel etc.
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2021, 07:16:22 »

Like Broadgage, I am really concerned at the second collision ... being careful not to speculate too far.

Good to see everyone is out and alive - hope the injuries to the driver (in spite of him (?) being trapped) are not life changing - I am keeping an ear open for a medical update and will post when I see one.

The Waterloo to [Honiton/Exeter] hourly service does - of course follow the Portsmouth to Cardiff service through, as per yesterday evening, making an excellent connection from Southampton to the west, and utterly failing to connect for Waterloo and Clapham Junction to Trowbridge / Bath / Keynsham / Bristol passengers.
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2021, 08:25:47 »

Like Broadgage, I am really concerned at the second collision ... being careful not to speculate too far.

Good to see everyone is out and alive - hope the injuries to the driver (in spite of him (?) being trapped) are not life changing - I am keeping an ear open for a medical update and will post when I see one.


It does sound as though injuries were not serious, which is wonderful news if accurate. I assume most, if not all, passengers would have been seated, which would have helped. Regarding the driver, one can be trapped following an accident without being hurt, and I hope this was the case here.
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2021, 08:35:56 »

The two services on Real Time Trains. The second train not detected at Tunnel Junction. Both running late, the SWR» (South Western Railway - about) service making up time, and both arrived at the junction with not many minutes between them. Thoughts with everyone affected.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G57571/2021-10-31/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L52648/2021-10-31/detailed
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« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2021, 09:21:09 »

Real Time Trains data only there for a week "after".  Thanks for the links, Mark - here are the pertinent bits:




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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2021, 09:25:54 »

I assume most, if not all, passengers would have been seated, which would have helped.

I have seem some reports that there were people standing as they prepared to get off at Salisbury.
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2021, 09:49:45 »

Looks like 1F27 passed though by the skin of its teeth!



Other notes (from BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Wiltshire) ... 3 remain in hospital. Driver serious but comfortable. "About 100 people on the train(s)". Can't trust everything you hear - comment from Claire Mann referred to as "Managing director of Great Western Railway" ...
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« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2021, 10:05:37 »

Guard on my train from Templecombe to Exeter has told me that no units have been allowed out of Salisbury depot this morning. That has meant only a shuttle service can be run between Gillingham and Exeter using units that outstation overnight at Yeovil and Exeter.

One of those units is parked up at Yeovil Junction, low on fuel, having not been able to make it back to Salisbury last night. It may have to be fuelled by road tanker if it can't be taken back to Salisbury in the next day or two.

Question. Can SWR» (South Western Railway - about) fuel their 159s at Exeter if need be?
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« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2021, 10:36:01 »

From overnight:


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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2021, 11:07:07 »

There are now enough daylight pictures (e.g. on the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) to confirm some of what was "known" but confusing last night.

The eastbound GWR (Great Western Railway) train (1F27 ) passed Salisbury Junction first (timed 18:41 - 5 minutes early). This is a sharp right turn, limited to 20 mph. For reasons still unclear, this train was held at Dean (some distance before the station) for over two hours before departing 151 late and being cancelled at Fratton "Reason TY [Mishap-Train Operating Company cause] ".

The westbound GWR train, subject to the same 20 mph speed limit round the sharp left turn, was timed at Salisbury Junction at 18:42, 19 late. It stopped with the last vehicle outside the tunnel, and still on the points. Its rear end was thus well to the left of the Down Main Line that 1L53 was arriving on. This last vehicle was reported to have derailed, but I think that might be a mistake. It was struck soon after so ended up derailed anyway, and it does seem unlikely that an obstruction would derail only the last vehicle - and it never entered the tunnel. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

The SWR» (South Western Railway - about) train (1L53) had earlier been cancelled before departing "Reason JP [Failure to maintain vegetation within network boundaries in accordance with prevailing Network Rail standards]". It was reinstated and was last timed departing Andover at 18:30, 6 late. It should have passed Salisbury Tunnel Junction at 18:39, so with the delay would be expected at 18:45 (any time in RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) is interpolated). Its straighter run over the points allows a 50 mph speed limit, but it should have been slowed, delayed, and then stopped by the signals. The biggest question at the moment is why that did not happen.

We know 1L53 bit not stop, and struck the rear vehicle of 1F30 a glancing blow. It is not possible to tell from the resting positions where that stopped carriage was when struck, but in its current position the two trains would not have passed to strike corner to side. The impact would have been corner to corner, and much more violent as a result. Either way, the leading end of that GWR vehicle was did not pass the tunnel portal; it's not clear from the picture whether it lodged against it and could go no further. 1L53 was thrown off its track, and half overturned, and ran into the tunnel in that canted position along the Up Main and (at least in places) became wedged between 1F30 and the tunnel wall.


Two things went well in the accident, accounting the the relatively light injuries, and to only a small number of passengers and staff. One was that the body shells largely kept their shape and bounced off each other. The other was that no fire broke out. It could have been very much worse.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 17:40:42 by stuving » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2021, 13:27:10 »

If you lighten the image then there seems to be something between the two GWR (Great Western Railway) carriages just at the tunnel portal.
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2021, 13:27:59 »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) lunchtime news reports 5 people still in hospital, all described as stable.
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2021, 13:40:33 »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) lunchtime news reports 5 people still in hospital, all described as stable.

Now it is being reported that the SWR» (South Western Railway - about) driver's injuries are more serious, and sadly will have long-term consequences.
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2021, 13:48:58 »

I think in Stuving’s excellent summary the eastbound GWR (Great Western Railway) (1F27) would have been stopped by an area emergency call.  I’m therefore assuming that if they were still in Salisbury’s control area then it would not necessarily be a priority to get them going again. 

But what happens to the signallers who are on shift in such circumstances, do they have to get relieved?

Paul
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2021, 13:49:56 »

If you lighten the image then there seems to be something between the two GWR (Great Western Railway) carriages just at the tunnel portal.

Looks like the impact zone to me, which would place both trains further back from the tunnel mouth at the point of collision.
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