Integrated Rail Plan for the North and Midlands

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

Richard Bowker pointed out on R4 Today that one of the reasons for cutting the Eastern Leg stated in the document was that it would cause disruption to the motorway system as it crossed it something like 13 times.  Yet he pointed out all these local improvements will mean massive disruption to rail passengers for years.

[Lee]

Richard Bowker pointed out on R4 Today that one of the reasons for cutting the Eastern Leg stated in the document was that it would cause disruption to the motorway system as it crossed it something like 13 times.  Yet he pointed out all these local improvements will mean massive disruption to rail passengers for years.

I am afraid you lost me at "Richard Bowker".

[Red Squirrel]

Welcome thought the change from New St to Moor St might be, isn't it a bit of a stretch to call the interchange 'seamless'? https://goo.gl/maps/ZUuppVWzK1bCNdFm9

I haven't read all the info yet. Are you sure that the interchange is between Moor St and New St, because that's not what your map says.

The interchange will be Moor St to Curzon St, as the map suggests. The arrival point for trains from Bristol and Cardiff will change from New St to Moor St. So changing the station will make it easier to change trains. However the interchange between Moor St and Curzon St will involve leaving one station and crossing a road to get to the other, so it isn't what I would call seamless.

[ellendune]

Richard Bowker pointed out on R4 Today that one of the reasons for cutting the Eastern Leg stated in the document was that it would cause disruption to the motorway system as it crossed it something like 13 times.  Yet he pointed out all these local improvements will mean massive disruption to rail passengers for years.

I am afraid you lost me at "Richard Bowker".

He was criticising the government. 

[eightonedee]

.... and making the point that by "upgrading existing routes", the users of these lines would suffer years of disruption that will further discourage increased use of trains in the north.

[Lee]

Richard Bowker pointed out on R4 Today that one of the reasons for cutting the Eastern Leg stated in the document was that it would cause disruption to the motorway system as it crossed it something like 13 times.  Yet he pointed out all these local improvements will mean massive disruption to rail passengers for years.

I am afraid you lost me at "Richard Bowker".

He was criticising the government. 

.... and making the point that by "upgrading existing routes", the users of these lines would suffer years of disruption that will further discourage increased use of trains in the north.

That's as maybe - but I'm afraid that for me personally, there are just certain people who I would prefer stayed in the sunset once they had walked off into it.

In any case, for an ex-SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) chief with his track record - which included a proposal for mass closures and service withdrawals in the North - to be criticising anyone on this subject is laughable in the extreme.

[Red Squirrel]

I know it is all part of living, as we do, in a healthy flourishing democracy, but I do find it makes me a bit queasy watching people seek political advantage rather than just sticking to their guns and standing up for what they believe in - even if I don't agree with them.

According to the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Labour is committed to the full HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) proposals and Northern Powerhouse rail, Sir Keir Starmer has said.

After the government announced its Integrated Rail Plan, the Labour leader said the scrapped sections were in his party's last manifesto and "that is our commitment" going forward.

Starmer was absent for the last two votes on HS2 in Jan 2018 and July 2019, but in March 2016 he was one of just 42 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) who voted against the High Speed Rail (London — West Midlands) Bill. 

[Bmblbzzz]

I agree with you but it is possible for people to change their views. Not only possible but good and healthy, to reconsider and change your position in response to changing evidence and/or circumstance. I don't know if that's necessarily what Starmer has done in this case.

[TaplowGreen]

I agree with you but it is possible for people to change their views. Not only possible but good and healthy, to reconsider and change your position in response to changing evidence and/or circumstance. I don't know if that's necessarily what Starmer has done in this case.

I think you'll find it's political opportunism, not least because many of the constituencies affected are those which Labour desperately need to win back if they're to have any chance of winning the next election.

.........all change at Damascus Parkway?

[TonyN]

This sums it up quite nicely.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/peter-brookes-times-cartoon-november-19-2021-j9h7khmtl

[didcotdean]

Welcome thought the change from New St to Moor St might be, isn't it a bit of a stretch to call the interchange 'seamless'? https://goo.gl/maps/ZUuppVWzK1bCNdFm9

I haven't read all the info yet. Are you sure that the interchange is between Moor St and New St, because that's not what your map says.

The interchange will be Moor St to Curzon St, as the map suggests. The arrival point for trains from Bristol and Cardiff will change from New St to Moor St. So changing the station will make it easier to change trains. However the interchange between Moor St and Curzon St will involve leaving one station and crossing a road to get to the other, so it isn't what I would call seamless.

From the conceptual design of the improvements to Moor Street Station there is supposed to be a footbridge from the transfer deck that crosses over to the plaza in front of one end of Curzon Street. Although it is shown without a roof.

[ellendune]

I know it is all part of living, as we do, in a healthy flourishing democracy, but I do find it makes me a bit queasy watching people seek political advantage rather than just sticking to their guns and standing up for what they believe in - even if I don't agree with them.

According to the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Labour is committed to the full HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) proposals and Northern Powerhouse rail, Sir Keir Starmer has said.

After the government announced its Integrated Rail Plan, the Labour leader said the scrapped sections were in his party's last manifesto and "that is our commitment" going forward.

Starmer was absent for the last two votes on HS2 in Jan 2018 and July 2019, but in March 2016 he was one of just 42 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) who voted against the High Speed Rail (London — West Midlands) Bill. 

That would be because he is the MP for Euston Station and quite alot of his constituents don't like the disruption caused by rebuilding Euston station and HS2 into it.  He is doing his job and representing his constituents. 

[TaplowGreen]

I know it is all part of living, as we do, in a healthy flourishing democracy, but I do find it makes me a bit queasy watching people seek political advantage rather than just sticking to their guns and standing up for what they believe in - even if I don't agree with them.

According to the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Labour is committed to the full HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) proposals and Northern Powerhouse rail, Sir Keir Starmer has said.

After the government announced its Integrated Rail Plan, the Labour leader said the scrapped sections were in his party's last manifesto and "that is our commitment" going forward.

Starmer was absent for the last two votes on HS2 in Jan 2018 and July 2019, but in March 2016 he was one of just 42 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) who voted against the High Speed Rail (London — West Midlands) Bill. 

That would be because he is the MP for Euston Station and quite alot of his constituents don't like the disruption caused by rebuilding Euston station and HS2 into it.  He is doing his job and representing his constituents. 

Odd that he didn't mention that this morning when he was being asked on the BBC about his Damascene conversion to the HS2 cause?

I'm sure it's entirely coincidental.

[ellendune]

Starmer was absent for the last two votes on HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) in Jan 2018 and July 2019, but in March 2016 he was one of just 42 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) who voted against the High Speed Rail (London — West Midlands) Bill. 

That would be because he is the MP for Euston Station and quite alot of his constituents don't like the disruption caused by rebuilding Euston station and HS2 into it.  He is doing his job and representing his constituents. 

Odd that he didn't mention that this morning when he was being asked on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) about his Damascene conversion to the HS2 cause?

I'm sure it's entirely coincidental.

The northern bits do not have a lot of impact on his constituency.  It is quite reasonable to support the line in principle while opposing its impact on the area around Euston Station.  I assume he would have been quite supportive of stopping it at Old Oak Common for example. 

[stuving]

Starmer was absent for the last two votes on HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) in Jan 2018 and July 2019, but in March 2016 he was one of just 42 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) who voted against the High Speed Rail (London — West Midlands) Bill. 

That would be because he is the MP for Euston Station and quite alot of his constituents don't like the disruption caused by rebuilding Euston station and HS2 into it.  He is doing his job and representing his constituents. 

Odd that he didn't mention that this morning when he was being asked on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) about his Damascene conversion to the HS2 cause?

I'm sure it's entirely coincidental.

The northern bits do not have a lot of impact on his constituency.  It is quite reasonable to support the line in principle while opposing its impact on the area around Euston Station.  I assume he would have been quite supportive of stopping it at Old Oak Common for example. 

Indeed - and he did say this in his BBC interview (despite TaplowGreen missing it). Whether that justifies voting against the bill is moot; it was not going to get changed by that stage so the vote was pointless - but also no more than a gesture as only 28 MPs voted against.