Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
No recent travel & transport from BBC stories as at 01:35 05 Oct 2024
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 11/10/24 - TWSW General Meeting
22/10/24 - BoA Public Transport talk
25/10/24 - Melksham Transport Group
27/11/24 - WWRUG, Trowbridge

On this day
5th Oct (1987)
Newquay Signal Box closed

Train RunningNo cancellations or delays
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 24/10 03:05 Purely a light-hearted question, but who do you bet on?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
October 05, 2024, 01:50:07 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[89] Meet the Director, 3 October - an update
[89] Issue with GWR Electric Suburban Trains?
[67] vote for your favourite rail leaf cleaner
[66] 6. Catering
[44] "Just keep playing trains" - railways as mental health therapy...
[36] Euston: a five point plan
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
  Print  
Author Topic: Storm Barra  (Read 16057 times)
a-driver
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1047


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2021, 17:30:28 »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10283


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2021, 17:38:40 »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

Agree 100% (as I said in post #15).  One quick glance at that webcam and it was pretty obvious to me that it stood little to no chance!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
PhilWakely
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2094



View Profile
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2021, 17:43:24 »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

I think you will find that 2F12 (0917 Paignton to Exmouth) was blocking the UP in the Teignmouth area.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5540



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2021, 17:49:07 »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

I think that they are still trying to kid themselves that this was a "one off" breakdown, rather than being a defective design that resulted in the rescue unit suffering the same fate as the first one.

A normal breakdown may be resolved by attaching another unit, at either end. Defective design results in both the assisting unit, and a third unit on the other line suffering likewise.

Presumably hitachi will be picking up the bill for all the delays Roll Eyes
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
a-driver
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1047


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2021, 18:08:20 »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

Agree 100% (as I said in post #15).  One quick glance at that webcam and it was pretty obvious to me that it stood little to no chance!

Sorry, missed that post.


I think you will find that 2F12 (0917 Paignton to Exmouth) was blocking the UP in the Teignmouth area.

I think that should have been easy to withdraw, you’ve got the crossover at Teignmouth afterall.
Logged
infoman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1410


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2021, 18:36:49 »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) spotlight news are reporting on the 18:30pm tuesday evening news

BBC Local news available for 24 hours only
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10283


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2021, 18:52:45 »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo&t=494s

And it confirms a few things:

1) The down train that failed didn't make its booked call at Dawlish but still succumbed.
2) The new area of strengthened sea wall makes a big difference, but was unable to stop all the sea water from coming on to the tracks, so a rescue from that way may also have been problematic.
3) The rescue train was clearly being hit badly, making rescue from that direction with an IET (Intercity Express Train) pretty much impossible and I don't understand why the attempt was authorised.
4) The sea wall needs to be strengthened quite a way east of Dawlish station - further than the Phase Two works currently underway?
5) Conditions were awful!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
DaveHarries
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 261



View Profile
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2021, 19:04:05 »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.

I had heard yesterday (I forget where) that it was planned to use working by pilotman along the sea wall.
Dave
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 8199



View Profile
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2021, 20:06:46 »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.



Absolutely right.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5540



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2021, 20:22:25 »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.

I had heard yesterday (I forget where) that it was planned to use working by pilotman along the sea wall.
Dave

Blocking both tracks at times of high tides and high winds might be the only option. But that would heap EVEN MORE adverse publicity upon the failed IET (Intercity Express Train) project.
"We used to have through trains from the far west to London, even in bad weather. But now we have a connecting bus because the new trains dont work in bad weather" That will go down well with Cornish MPs (Member of Parliament) and their voters. So much for new purpose designed trains.

And that presumes that a connecting bus actually works, likely problems include;
No bus because we forgot to book it. Procedures are being reviewed.
Bus cant/wont take cycles or dogs.
No bus available from our supplier. We are looking at alternative providers.
A single small bus cant take the all the passengers from a busy train.
Incoming train is late, bus leaves on time and empty. Never mind there is another one in only a couple of hours.
Bus is delayed and connecting train leaves on time before bus arrives. As above.

To complete the experience change also at Reading, or Plymouth. The whole thing would be a farce.

I say again that Hitachi need to be told "Enough excuses, you made them, you make them work, or replace them"
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Lee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2021, 20:29:39 »

What about the passengers on the drowned trains ?
Was rescue arranged or they still stuck there.

Remind me why the excellent crews who relaid to Okehampton haven't been carrying on their good work to Meldon and beyond, and started from the other end at Bere Alston too ... been talked about long enough!

Agree with you entirely, grahame. Sadly, and I am sure you appreciate all too well, but rather more work would be required that simply relaying the track. Meldon viaduct needs major investment to reinstate trains; plus the trackbed is in private ownership in several places along the line - not to mention the housing estate at Tavistock.


Didn't Network Rail judge it to be "expensive but feasible" ? Is the plan to knock down anything in the way? If so, what specifically gets bulldozed?

In an attempt to answer my own question, I came across this blog piece.

Bear in mind that it is anti-reopening, but it does have some good photos of some of the potential problems and obstacles previously mentioned.
Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10283


View Profile
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2021, 20:42:49 »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.

Absolutely right.

I agree it might have been a better option, especially given the fairly short longevity of the storm itself, though producing enough buses on weekdays when many are doing school runs is far from easy.

Let’s hope the phase two works are completed before the next storm and those mitigation measures are enough to keep the trains running.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
trainbuff
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 246


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2021, 22:42:42 »

Just a thought.....OK it's a bit radical....given there's been a bit of warning of this weather, wouldn't it have made sense to run a train service to the station either side of the affected area, and then bus people between these two points, or Exeter if it's more practical?

Before the "yeahbutwhere'sallthebuses" starts, I'm not suggesting a full service, it isn't needed at the moment anyway, but surely it would be better than this chaos?

There were buses on standby at both Newton Abbot and Exeter St Davids this morning and both lots put to use.

A better idea would have been to have had a couple of Castle sets stabled at Newton and St Davids rather than buses. The Castles would have survived the waves.
Or use the 7 coach XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HST (High Speed Train)'s from Laira
Logged

Invest in Railways in Devon and Cornwall!
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5540



View Profile
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2021, 04:46:29 »

Use of HSTs (High Speed Train), whether the shortened Castle sets, or the stored Cross Country ones would be just too embarrassing.

The department for transport and GWR (Great Western Railway) have gone to a lot of trouble to persuade us that IETs (Intercity Express Train) are a great step forward and that HSTs are obsolete, non compliant, and not to be used.
Bringing them back would be an admission of defeat.

Whatever next ? bringing back HSTs to replace cracked or otherwise not available IETs ? no way !

I expect a rush to scrap the withdrawn mothballed HSTs before the idea of reuse spreads.

IETs represent progress, passengers are starting to get used to shorter trains, uncomfortable seats, no catering, etc, they will soon get used to no through trains during high tides. Blame this on bad weather not on faulty trains.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6537


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2021, 12:25:49 »


Didn't Network Rail judge it to be "expensive but feasible" ? Is the plan to knock down anything in the way? If so, what specifically gets bulldozed?

I've done an in-depth survey (alright, a quick shufti at Google Maps), and the only physical barrier seems to be West Devon's council offices, which they have said they would happily relocate. Some of the trackbed has disappeared into farmland, but actual demolition work isn't likely to take more than a morning.
Logged

Now, please!
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page