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Author Topic: Storm Barra  (Read 6749 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2021, 07:50:39 pm »

No trains at all during the next storm then.  You heard it here first.

I dont expect trains to be cancelled/delayed throughout every storm, but I do expect such cancellations when high tides coincide with high winds. Possibly for an hour each side of high water.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2021, 07:58:30 pm »

Ok, so complete line closures but only very short lived and only very occasionally then?
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TonyK
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« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2021, 08:15:37 pm »


I've done an in-depth survey (alright, a quick shufti at Google Maps), and the only physical barrier seems to be West Devon's council offices, which they have said they would happily relocate. Some of the trackbed has disappeared into farmland, but actual demolition work isn't likely to take more than a morning.
Quote
I am afraid it is not quite that simple, as the photos in the anti-reopening blog piece I linked to last night showed.

So, aside from the council offices we also have:

Housing at the old Tavistock North Railway Station.


Housing blocking the route at the end of the Tavistock Viaduct.


Other issues the anti-reopening folk point to include loss of cycle/walking paths, impact on rural dwellings and farms, including the former Brentor railway station, impact on wildlife, the need to replace Meldon Viaduct, and the impact of new modern replacement bridges and associated permanent way and other infrastructure on the landscape and tranquility thereof.

None of it insurmountable in the face of precedents such as the Borders Railway of course, but perhaps not a given either.


OK, make it two days for demolition. It's hardly HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 07:34:58 pm by TonyK » Logged

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broadgage
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« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2021, 08:36:41 pm »

Ok, so complete line closures but only very short lived and only very occasionally then?

Maybe not quite complete, but probably no voyagers and no IETs (Intercity Express Train) which is almost the same thing as regards the average passenger.

Only perhaps for about an hour each side of high water, when high winds are also expected.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2021, 08:53:24 pm »

Ok, so complete line closures but only very short lived and only very occasionally then?

Maybe not quite complete, but probably no voyagers and no IETs (Intercity Express Train) which is almost the same thing as regards the average passenger.

Only perhaps for about an hour each side of high water, when high winds are also expected.

OK, so no Voyagers (as now) and no IETs, but HSTs (High Speed Train) and GWR (Great Western Railway) DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) will continue to run (but no extra ones in the form of a shuttle service). 

Thanks for clarifying - Seems sensible to me.
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jamestheredengine
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« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2021, 09:43:27 pm »

It is a prediction, based upon previous experience.
Voyagers failed to work in severe but entirely predictable conditions at Dawlish. And what was the result ? Modify the voyagers to work ? not likely, simply say "no voyagers in bad weather"

It was an "essential requirement" that IETs (Intercity Express Train) should withstand the conditions at Dawlish. They do not as multiple failures have shown. Will hitachi be compelled to make them work ? Not likely ! Simply say "NO IETs in bad weather" and avoid bad publicity.
Cancel services, or delay them until the tide goes out. All due to extreme weather. Just as Cross Country do.

After a while most passengers will forget that they used to get through trains even in bad weather. Those who DO remember can be told that this  is due to climate change and nothing to do with new trains.

A lot of money has indeed been spent on rebuilding/improving the sea wall, but AFAIK (as far as I know) this was primarily to stop it washing away, and not to facilitate the operation of faulty trains.
Perhaps D1015 should be kept on standby for stormy days.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2021, 08:06:29 am »


I've done an in-depth survey (alright, a quick shufti at Google Maps), and the only physical barrier seems to be West Devon's council offices, which they have said they would happily relocate. Some of the trackbed has disappeared into farmland, but actual demolition work isn't likely to take more than a morning.

I am afraid it is not quite that simple, as the photos in the anti-reopening blog piece I linked to last night showed.

So, aside from the council offices we also have:

Housing at the old Tavistock North Railway Station.


Housing blocking the route at the end of the Tavistock Viaduct.


Other issues the anti-reopening folk point to include loss of cycle/walking paths, impact on rural dwellings and farms, including the former Brentor railway station, impact on wildlife, the need to replace Meldon Viaduct, and the impact of new modern replacement bridges and associated permanent way and other infrastructure on the landscape and tranquility thereof.

None of it insurmountable in the face of precedents such as the Borders Railway of course, but perhaps not a given either.



OK, make it two days for demolition. It's hardly HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)).
[/quote]

OK before we start dusting off the wrecking balls, deciding who's going to have their houses knocked down and spending tens of millions of £ of other people's money, let's remember that storms of this severity with these consequences are a once in several years event.

It seems to me really simple - there is normally at least a few days warning of these events - so when this warning comes through, GWR (Great Western Railway) instigate a contingency plan of;

1) Warning people not to travel unless absolutely necessary and offer full refunds for those who've booked.
2) Run bus replacement between Newton Abbott and Exeter and similarly warn people of the limitations
3) Don't run trains which can't cope with these conditions through the affected area



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Lee
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« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2021, 10:51:14 am »

OK before we start dusting off the wrecking balls, deciding who's going to have their houses knocked down and spending tens of millions of £ of other people's money, let's remember that storms of this severity with these consequences are a once in several years event.

It seems to me really simple - there is normally at least a few days warning of these events - so when this warning comes through, GWR (Great Western Railway) instigate a contingency plan of;

1) Warning people not to travel unless absolutely necessary and offer full refunds for those who've booked.
2) Run bus replacement between Newton Abbott and Exeter and similarly warn people of the limitations
3) Don't run trains which can't cope with these conditions through the affected area

I must admit that i never previously credited you with such boundless optimism for the future, TG. Have you ever considered a career in the No10 team? I suspect that a number of vacancies may open up shortly.

On the "other people's money" quote, I have a question - How many supporters of alternatives to the Dawlish status quo could reasonably be described as "taxpayers", and are they all members of a lower tier of "taxpayer" with lesser rights and status compared to "taxpayers" who support the Dawlish status quo, or who have no particular interest or opinion on the matter?
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Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
TonyK
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« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2021, 08:10:44 pm »


OK before we start dusting off the wrecking balls, deciding who's going to have their houses knocked down and spending tens of millions of £ of other people's money, let's remember that storms of this severity with these consequences are a once in several years event.

It seems to me really simple - there is normally at least a few days warning of these events - so when this warning comes through, GWR (Great Western Railway) instigate a contingency plan of;

1) Warning people not to travel unless absolutely necessary and offer full refunds for those who've booked.
2) Run bus replacement between Newton Abbott and Exeter and similarly warn people of the limitations
3) Don't run trains which can't cope with these conditions through the affected area


All perfectly sensible and a good, cheap solution for the odd few really bad days,  but none of it likely to result in trains from Bere Alston to a reborn Tavistock Station.

By coincidence, I was in Tavistock today, and through the rain and low cloud, I thought:

Quote
Housing at the old Tavistock North Railway Station.

... might have to be narrow gauge, and

Quote
Housing blocking the route at the end of the Tavistock Viaduct.

...tight, but just about doable as a curve at low speed. It would be a unique view from the small window.

In the end, this is all going to be a matter for the good people of Tavistock, probably any bad ones too, to decide if they want a railway connection again, or whether they are happy with things the way they are at present. If a decent majority does, and I don't think 52%-48% either way would be good enough, then the local powers that be should redouble efforts to get the government to make it happen. Connecting Bere Alston to Okehampton is really another matter, and largely for central government alone to decide on. There isn't much in between with a business case for a railway. If central government decided to reopen it on grounds of diversionary route alone, which I very much doubt, a couple of houses and a cycle path won't get in the way.
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broadgage
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« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2021, 08:22:36 pm »

In a properly run world, "the railway" or some government agency or department connected with the railway, would keep an eye on that house, and purchase it if it comes up for sale.
Demolition perhaps years before the new line is built would be a needless waste, but the property could be let as a holiday home, thereby avoiding future problems when demolition is required.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ellendune
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« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2021, 09:23:47 pm »

In a properly run world, "the railway" or some government agency or department connected with the railway, would keep an eye on that house, and purchase it if it comes up for sale.
Demolition perhaps years before the new line is built would be a needless waste, but the property could be let as a holiday home, thereby avoiding future problems when demolition is required.

You mean like the way that Exmoor Associates buys property for reopening the L&B?
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2021, 07:22:26 am »

In a properly run world, "the railway" or some government agency or department connected with the railway, would keep an eye on that house, and purchase it if it comes up for sale.
Demolition perhaps years before the new line is built would be a needless waste, but the property could be let as a holiday home, thereby avoiding future problems when demolition is required.

It is rather more than 'one house'
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TonyN
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« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2021, 11:53:01 am »

In a properly run world, "the railway" or some government agency or department connected with the railway, would keep an eye on that house, and purchase it if it comes up for sale.
Demolition perhaps years before the new line is built would be a needless waste, but the property could be let as a holiday home, thereby avoiding future problems when demolition is required.

It is rather more than 'one house'
Money grabbing developers building houses on the trackbed is not suprising. But a council building it's offices on the trackbed of a former main line is just crazy.
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Jamsdad
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« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2021, 12:06:21 pm »

West Devon Council Offices at Tavistock! No one will shed a tear if that gets bulldozed.
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TonyK
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« Reply #74 on: December 11, 2021, 01:49:44 pm »

West Devon Council Offices at Tavistock! No one will shed a tear if that gets bulldozed.

Not even West Devon Council.

Good practice in doing this sort of thing could be seen in Manchester, during Metrolink planning and works. It would take me a while to look up the notes, but I recall that very early on in the process to build the extension to Manchester Airport, the local authority bought 3 houses on the edge of a development that would need to be demolished. They then used them as temporary accommodation for homeless families for a few years, until the operational need to shift them came about. In Oldham, the first works on the entirely new tram route through the town centre involved the construction of a Baptist Church and a funeral parlour to allow the subsequent demolition of both, rather than having services disrupted by trams running down the aisle. As both were an improvement on the original, all involved were satisfied with the results, and protracted legal wrangles were avoided.
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