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Author Topic: Storm Barra  (Read 6750 times)
a-driver
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« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2021, 05:30:28 pm »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2021, 05:38:40 pm »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

Agree 100% (as I said in post #15).  One quick glance at that webcam and it was pretty obvious to me that it stood little to no chance!
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
PhilWakely
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« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2021, 05:43:24 pm »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

I think you will find that 2F12 (0917 Paignton to Exmouth) was blocking the UP in the Teignmouth area.
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broadgage
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« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2021, 05:49:07 pm »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

I think that they are still trying to kid themselves that this was a "one off" breakdown, rather than being a defective design that resulted in the rescue unit suffering the same fate as the first one.

A normal breakdown may be resolved by attaching another unit, at either end. Defective design results in both the assisting unit, and a third unit on the other line suffering likewise.

Presumably hitachi will be picking up the bill for all the delays Roll Eyes
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
a-driver
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« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2021, 06:08:20 pm »

What I don’t understand is why GWR (Great Western Railway)/Network Rail agreed for the rescue IET (Intercity Express Train) to come from Exeter.
They’ve basically had to run the rescue set on the most exposed part of the seawall and then park it there whilst they prepare for coupling allowing it to be battered by the waves. Surely it would have made more sense, and probably more successful, if the rescue set came from Newton Abbot direction?

Agree 100% (as I said in post #15).  One quick glance at that webcam and it was pretty obvious to me that it stood little to no chance!

Sorry, missed that post.


I think you will find that 2F12 (0917 Paignton to Exmouth) was blocking the UP in the Teignmouth area.

I think that should have been easy to withdraw, you’ve got the crossover at Teignmouth afterall.
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infoman
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« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2021, 06:36:49 pm »

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) spotlight news are reporting on the 18:30pm tuesday evening news

BBC Local news available for 24 hours only
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2021, 06:52:45 pm »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo&t=494s

And it confirms a few things:

1) The down train that failed didn't make its booked call at Dawlish but still succumbed.
2) The new area of strengthened sea wall makes a big difference, but was unable to stop all the sea water from coming on to the tracks, so a rescue from that way may also have been problematic.
3) The rescue train was clearly being hit badly, making rescue from that direction with an IET (Intercity Express Train) pretty much impossible and I don't understand why the attempt was authorised.
4) The sea wall needs to be strengthened quite a way east of Dawlish station - further than the Phase Two works currently underway?
5) Conditions were awful!
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« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2021, 07:04:05 pm »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.

I had heard yesterday (I forget where) that it was planned to use working by pilotman along the sea wall.
Dave
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2021, 08:06:46 pm »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.



Absolutely right.
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broadgage
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« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2021, 08:22:25 pm »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.

I had heard yesterday (I forget where) that it was planned to use working by pilotman along the sea wall.
Dave

Blocking both tracks at times of high tides and high winds might be the only option. But that would heap EVEN MORE adverse publicity upon the failed IET (Intercity Express Train) project.
"We used to have through trains from the far west to London, even in bad weather. But now we have a connecting bus because the new trains dont work in bad weather" That will go down well with Cornish MPs (Member of Parliament) and their voters. So much for new purpose designed trains.

And that presumes that a connecting bus actually works, likely problems include;
No bus because we forgot to book it. Procedures are being reviewed.
Bus cant/wont take cycles or dogs.
No bus available from our supplier. We are looking at alternative providers.
A single small bus cant take the all the passengers from a busy train.
Incoming train is late, bus leaves on time and empty. Never mind there is another one in only a couple of hours.
Bus is delayed and connecting train leaves on time before bus arrives. As above.

To complete the experience change also at Reading, or Plymouth. The whole thing would be a farce.

I say again that Hitachi need to be told "Enough excuses, you made them, you make them work, or replace them"
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Lee
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« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2021, 08:29:39 pm »

What about the passengers on the drowned trains ?
Was rescue arranged or they still stuck there.

Remind me why the excellent crews who relaid to Okehampton haven't been carrying on their good work to Meldon and beyond, and started from the other end at Bere Alston too ... been talked about long enough!

Agree with you entirely, grahame. Sadly, and I am sure you appreciate all too well, but rather more work would be required that simply relaying the track. Meldon viaduct needs major investment to reinstate trains; plus the trackbed is in private ownership in several places along the line - not to mention the housing estate at Tavistock.


Didn't Network Rail judge it to be "expensive but feasible" ? Is the plan to knock down anything in the way? If so, what specifically gets bulldozed?

In an attempt to answer my own question, I came across this blog piece.

Bear in mind that it is anti-reopening, but it does have some good photos of some of the potential problems and obstacles previously mentioned.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2021, 08:42:49 pm »

A fantastic video showing just how bad conditions were and the trains involved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-cZ6V3tRo
Frankly it might, IMO (in my opinion), have made more sense to put a block on both tracks and run trains between Penzance / Plymouth to Newton Abbot and then north of Exeter St. Davids. Not terribly convenient but probably a good idea next time.

Absolutely right.

I agree it might have been a better option, especially given the fairly short longevity of the storm itself, though producing enough buses on weekdays when many are doing school runs is far from easy.

Let’s hope the phase two works are completed before the next storm and those mitigation measures are enough to keep the trains running.
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trainbuff
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« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2021, 10:42:42 pm »

Just a thought.....OK it's a bit radical....given there's been a bit of warning of this weather, wouldn't it have made sense to run a train service to the station either side of the affected area, and then bus people between these two points, or Exeter if it's more practical?

Before the "yeahbutwhere'sallthebuses" starts, I'm not suggesting a full service, it isn't needed at the moment anyway, but surely it would be better than this chaos?

There were buses on standby at both Newton Abbot and Exeter St Davids this morning and both lots put to use.

A better idea would have been to have had a couple of Castle sets stabled at Newton and St Davids rather than buses. The Castles would have survived the waves.
Or use the 7 coach XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) HST (High Speed Train)'s from Laira
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broadgage
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« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2021, 04:46:29 am »

Use of HSTs (High Speed Train), whether the shortened Castle sets, or the stored Cross Country ones would be just too embarrassing.

The department for transport and GWR (Great Western Railway) have gone to a lot of trouble to persuade us that IETs (Intercity Express Train) are a great step forward and that HSTs are obsolete, non compliant, and not to be used.
Bringing them back would be an admission of defeat.

Whatever next ? bringing back HSTs to replace cracked or otherwise not available IETs ? no way !

I expect a rush to scrap the withdrawn mothballed HSTs before the idea of reuse spreads.

IETs represent progress, passengers are starting to get used to shorter trains, uncomfortable seats, no catering, etc, they will soon get used to no through trains during high tides. Blame this on bad weather not on faulty trains.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2021, 12:25:49 pm »


Didn't Network Rail judge it to be "expensive but feasible" ? Is the plan to knock down anything in the way? If so, what specifically gets bulldozed?

I've done an in-depth survey (alright, a quick shufti at Google Maps), and the only physical barrier seems to be West Devon's council offices, which they have said they would happily relocate. Some of the trackbed has disappeared into farmland, but actual demolition work isn't likely to take more than a morning.
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