Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 09:35 28 Mar 2024
* Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
- Man suffers life-threatening injuries after train stabbing
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1992)
MOD Kineton tour, branch line society (*)

Train RunningCancelled
06:57 Swansea to London Paddington
07:43 Swansea to London Paddington
08:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
08:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
09:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
09:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
09:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
09:46 Westbury to Swindon
10:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
10:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
10:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:05 Swindon to Westbury
11:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
05:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance
06:38 Weymouth to Gloucester
06:54 Taunton to London Paddington
07:33 Weymouth to Gloucester
08:38 London Paddington to Westbury
09:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 09:13 Bristol Temple Meads to Gloucester
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 London Paddington to Oxford
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 09:46:23 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[193] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[109] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[75] Return of the BRUTE?
[59] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[46] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[26] CrossCountry upgrade will see 25% more rail seats
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
  Print  
Author Topic: Storm Barra  (Read 11659 times)
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2021, 12:37:12 »

I'm afraid it will take another sea wall collapse, rather than just a dew hours of disruption once or twice a year, for the inland route to get seriously back on the agenda.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Clan Line
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 858



View Profile
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2021, 13:20:03 »

Blame this on bad weather not on faulty trains.

Not just ordinary bad weather..............it's "climate change", we are repeatedly told. That will be made worse by me driving round more in my Fiesta because the rail service I used more than any other is about to be withdrawn !!

Expecting any sort of change of tack by those who procured the IETs (Intercity Express Train) is futile. We've had the wrong sort of snow followed now by the wrong sort of wind ...................wrong sort of trains Huh ....Nooooo chance !
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2021, 14:31:31 »

Blame this on bad weather not on faulty trains.

Not just ordinary bad weather..............it's "climate change", we are repeatedly told. That will be made worse by me driving round more in my Fiesta because the rail service I used more than any other is about to be withdrawn !!

Expecting any sort of change of tack by those who procured the IETs (Intercity Express Train) is futile. We've had the wrong sort of snow followed now by the wrong sort of wind ...................wrong sort of trains Huh ....Nooooo chance !

This particular fiasco should be blamed not on those who PROCURED the IETs but on those who BUILT them. Years ago, I and my now famous crystal ball, and others expressed doubts about the ability of the then proposed trains to cope with Dawlish conditions.
Advocates of the new units pointed out that the ability to cope with these conditions was an "essential requirement" and that this would not be a problem.
So this failure is down to Hitachi "you built them, you make them work"

Likewise the multiple cracks and lack of any action to deal with same is not the fault of those who procured the wretched things, but is down to Hitachi for defective design or construction "you built them, you make them work"

Other problems such as being too short, and the absence of buffets, hard seats, and the inadequate luggage space, ARE the fault of those who specified and procured the nasty things.
Cant blame Hitachi for building 5 car units as that is what the customer ordered.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 14:38:05 by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Lee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2021, 15:48:31 »


Didn't Network Rail judge it to be "expensive but feasible" ? Is the plan to knock down anything in the way? If so, what specifically gets bulldozed?

I've done an in-depth survey (alright, a quick shufti at Google Maps), and the only physical barrier seems to be West Devon's council offices, which they have said they would happily relocate. Some of the trackbed has disappeared into farmland, but actual demolition work isn't likely to take more than a morning.

I am afraid it is not quite that simple, as the photos in the anti-reopening blog piece I linked to last night showed.

So, aside from the council offices we also have:

Housing at the old Tavistock North Railway Station.


Housing blocking the route at the end of the Tavistock Viaduct.


Other issues the anti-reopening folk point to include loss of cycle/walking paths, impact on rural dwellings and farms, including the former Brentor railway station, impact on wildlife, the need to replace Meldon Viaduct, and the impact of new modern replacement bridges and associated permanent way and other infrastructure on the landscape and tranquility thereof.

None of it insurmountable in the face of precedents such as the Borders Railway of course, but perhaps not a given either.

I'm afraid it will take another sea wall collapse, rather than just a dew hours of disruption once or twice a year, for the inland route to get seriously back on the agenda.


Perhaps not right now, but the Network Rail Resilience Study was conducted well before the Okehampton reopening, and if Bere Alston-Tavistock follows relatively swiftly, and given that a dedicated bus link is now already established between Tavistock and Okehampton in the middle, then suddenly the prospects and business case for full reopening may start to look very different.
Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2021, 16:20:46 »

Perhaps not right now, but the Network Rail Resilience Study was conducted well before the Okehampton reopening, and if Bere Alston-Tavistock follows relatively swiftly, and given that a dedicated bus link is now already established between Tavistock and Okehampton in the middle, then suddenly the prospects and business case for full reopening may start to look very different.

I hope so...but I doubt it.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Henry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 369


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2021, 16:29:09 »

 There does not seem to be any contingency now, for what is usually an
annual event. Virtually no replacement coach service, due to cost ?

 Wouldn't a Castle HST (High Speed Train) shuttle service between Newton Abbot/Exeter worked ?
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2021, 17:07:36 »

There does not seem to be any contingency now, for what is usually an
annual event. Virtually no replacement coach service, due to cost ?

 Wouldn't a Castle HST (High Speed Train) shuttle service between Newton Abbot/Exeter worked ?

Yes an HST shuttle would work, but see my earlier remarks regarding the use of an HST being simply too embarrassing.
Coaches too hard to arrange and also expensive. Simpler just to say "do not attempt travel in bad weather" Blame the weather NOT IETs (Intercity Express Train).
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2021, 17:16:58 »

A YouTube video with 115000 views in a day, and lots of negative press for IETs (Intercity Express Train)/Hitachi. 

I'd say that was more embarrassing than had a shuttle service of Castle HSTs (High Speed Train) been arranged - which, after all, regularly ply up and down the same tracks anyway.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2021, 17:28:42 »

A YouTube video with 115000 views in a day, and lots of negative press for IETs (Intercity Express Train)/Hitachi. 

I'd say that was more embarrassing than had a shuttle service of Castle HSTs (High Speed Train) been arranged - which, after all, regularly ply up and down the same tracks anyway.

This fiasco was indeed embarrassing and generated negative publicity, but this should be one off.
Much better in future to simply say that "services are liable to be suspended during high tides" After a while people will simply blame the weather/global warming. And forget all about the defective trains. And forget that they USED to have through trains even in bad weather.

Use of HSTs would be an ongoing embarrassment EACH TIME they were used.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2021, 17:45:12 »

Why should it be a one off?
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Clan Line
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 858



View Profile
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2021, 18:09:46 »

This particular fiasco should be blamed not on those who PROCURED the IETs (Intercity Express Train) but on those who BUILT them.

So this failure is down to Hitachi "you built them, you make them work"


Totally agree with you there - but many/most/all of the large contractors out there who bid for Government work of all sorts know full well that this procurer never enforces its legal rights.

Trains, aeroplanes, submarines, hospitals, motorways, PPE, rail electrification, etc, etc are procured with the supplier knowing full well that if it doesn't meet the spec then the only way for the customer to get it fixed is for him to cough up more taxpayers' money. Then depending on the end user the money either appears - or doesn't - the rail passenger comes well down that list. So it is highly likely that the IET will limp on for many years to come (except past Dawlish of course)

No one tries that trick on Tesco, John Lewis or M & S - not more than once anyway !

Been there, seen it, done it, had it done to me !!
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2021, 18:21:18 »

Why should it be a one off?

Because the future policy is likely to be "carefully targeted" closures of the line at Dawlish when high tides and high winds are expected.
Blame it on the weather, not faulty trains.

Passengers can be advised not to travel, and those who choose to try and travel will have to wait for the tide to go out. Being stuck on a clearly dead train at or near Dawlish gives a poor impression of the new trains.

Being held at Taunton for a couple of hours "due to extreme weather" attaches no blame to the trains, just to the weather.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2021, 18:29:48 »

Because the future policy is likely to be "carefully targeted" closures of the line at Dawlish when high tides and high winds are expected.

Why is that likely?  Do you know something I don't, or is this just opinion/prediction?

Would it not be embarrassing to instigate a 'targeted closures the line' policy just after you've spent £80m finishing extra defences for it?
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2021, 19:04:20 »

It is a prediction, based upon previous experience.
Voyagers failed to work in severe but entirely predictable conditions at Dawlish. And what was the result ? Modify the voyagers to work ? not likely, simply say "no voyagers in bad weather"

It was an "essential requirement" that IETs (Intercity Express Train) should withstand the conditions at Dawlish. They do not as multiple failures have shown. Will hitachi be compelled to make them work ? Not likely ! Simply say "NO IETs in bad weather" and avoid bad publicity.
Cancel services, or delay them until the tide goes out. All due to extreme weather. Just as Cross Country do.

After a while most passengers will forget that they used to get through trains even in bad weather. Those who DO remember can be told that this  is due to climate change and nothing to do with new trains.

A lot of money has indeed been spent on rebuilding/improving the sea wall, but AFAIK (as far as I know) this was primarily to stop it washing away, and not to facilitate the operation of faulty trains.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2021, 19:40:23 »

No trains at all during the next storm then.  You heard it here first.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page