Late service to Warminster and Salisbury - 2021 v 2022

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The last train of the day to Warminster and Salisbury - 10th December 2021 and 21st February 2022.



On 10th December, it ran, well loaded, from Bristol Temple Meads at 22:25 and picked up many more at Bath Spa - pictured on the left - full and standing.

On 21st February, it ran with just two on board (driver and train manager) from Westbury - pictured on the right. A few minutes after it left Westbury (and a bit late), the 22:25 from Bristol Temple Meads arrived there ...

A failed connection onto the last train of the day is not clever. The train from Westbury was signalled out by a Network Rail signaller, dispatched by a person from Great Western Railway with doors closed and driver given the "go" by a South Western Railway train manager.  The only people not involved were any customers travelling from Bristol or Bath to Warminster or Slisbury who would have gotten to Westbury to find there onward train gone ... it wouldn't have happened like this prior to 13th December last - the departure from Westbury would have been delayed until the train arrived from Bristol - after all, it would have been the same (through) train. That would have worked for the customers ...

I was at Westbury last night, but unable to wait around after the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) train left - so I can't report on how many people were inconvenienced, or how they were looked after. There was a single taxi on the rank (diesel engine ticking over, but that's another story).  Passenger numbers would have been few - a cold Monday in February, between winter storms, just back after Omicron, is a contrast to a Friday in December in the lead up to Christmas.

[Mark A]

This'll be the one. It has to be said that as it runs from Cardiff, that possibly injects an extra wobble into a tight connection at Westbury.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87145/2022-02-21/detailed#allox_id=0

Not a problem on the evening in question, as it started from Bristol.

That might beg another question as, isn't it the last service to Bristol from Cardiff?

A train from Swansea departed late from Cardiff and if any passengers were put aboard that to Parkway it might have helped them, but Parkway's services look to have been in tatters last night too.

Mark

[Timmer]

I’d like to think taxis were provided for those requiring Warminster and Salisbury. I must say, that though doable, seven minutes is quite a tight connection. I wouldn’t feel comfortable relying on this connection unless I knew the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) would be held at Westbury for the arrival of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service.

[grahame]

That might beg another question as, isn't it the last service to Bristol from Cardiff?

From the timetable [journey planner for tonight]  final trains Cardiff to Bristol are 21:30, 22:00, 22:30 and 23:30. The Frome train which leaves Bristol at 22:25 is the 21:30 off Cardiff and was cancelled last night - I am not sure what happened to the three later trains - on line sites a bit confused but it looks like the 22:30 (at least) ran.

What was really incredible last night was, standing at Westbury, seeing the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) train waiting ... empty with no passengers staying on board after it arrived from Yeovil Junction, then setting off for Salisbury before its main purpose (a continuation of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service from Bristol and Bath) arrived.    Of course, had the SWR train been late into Salisbury, there was a potential to miss onward connections there - except that only  single later train is schedule off SAL to - err - Yeovil junction  

[grahame]

I’d like to think taxis were provided for those requiring Warminster and Salisbury. I must say, that though doable, seven minutes is quite a tight connection. I wouldn’t feel comfortable relying on this connection unless I knew the SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) would be held at Westbury for the arrival of the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service.

SWR / GWR, when we(*) met them in November, were extolling a daytime service that would have given a 4 minute connection at Westbury for Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge to London (Waterloo) journeys.  But at 4 minutes, it doesn't appear in journey planners and the risk would be with the passenger, and it's not something I would feel comfortable marketing. I WOULD take the risk personally, provided I had a backup plan - I would NOT rely on it for an interview ...

* - reps of groups campaigning to retain through services

The "rules of dispatch" at Westbury should (IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) allow for a hold of the 23:12 to Salisbury if the 23:06 is delayed by up to (say) 20 minutes.  Demonstrated to work, with such rules we would have a product which was at least saleable rather than something you crossed you finger about every time you told someone!

[Timmer]

The "rules of dispatch" at Westbury should (IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion)) allow for a hold of the 23:12 to Salisbury if the 23:06 is delayed by up to (say) 20 minutes.  Demonstrated to work, with such rules we would have a product which was at least saleable rather than something you crossed you finger about every time you told someone!

As it’s the last service of the day, perfectly reasonable that this particular connnection is held for a reasonable amount of time, as you suggest 20 minutes.

That’s the customer focused approach rather than what’s good for the rail company approach. Hopefully we’ll see less of the latter once GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) commences but I’m not holding my breath.

[Robin Summerhill]

There are a number of interesting points hidden in both your post and the chain of events. Clearly I wasn’t in Westbury last night so all I’ve got to go on is RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website).

The Cardiff (last night the Bristol because it was partially caped) was booked to arrive at WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) at 2306. The SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) train is booked to depart at 2312. This is only a 6-minute connection even if all goes well so on the face of it, it is not the sort of connection that anyone would guarantee.

The Salisbury is the last SWR train of the day from YVJ. It goes out of service when it arrives at Salisbury and, after it arrives, the only passenger train to leave Salisbury before the next morning is one down the LSW line to YVJ at 2355.

So on the face of it, it would make little difference if the Salisbury was held to connect with the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) train – or would it?

The GWR train arrived at WSB at 2322, 16 late. The SWR train, due away at 2312 after already spending 17 minutes at WSB, would not have got away at the earliest until 2325, and by then it would have sat in WSB platform for 30 minutes. If there had been any passengers already on the train going from, say, Yeovil or Frome to Warminster, they would have been pretty cheesed off by 2325 as they would have been sitting there for half an hour. It would also endanger the booked 15-minute connection between the two SWR trains at Salisbury if anyone wanted to make that connection

If what you say is true, that there were no passengers at all on the Salisbury, this is something that would not have been known by whoever planned the timetable or the staff rosters; they are not equipped with crystal balls at the planning stage. And talking of rosters, we also don’t know what the crew from the terminating Salisbury does next and whether any mandatory rest periods might be compromised.

On the night, on the platform itself, other decisions could theoretically be taken. But two points in answer to that: no 1 is who takes the decision to hold a train at that time of night when I doubt there are many people other than front line staff around? And 2: what responsibility does SWR have to get GWR passengers on a late running service home? I somehow doubt they have any.

Have you ever heard of a First Group bus service being held at Bath bus station because a First Group train from London was running late or vice versa? No – nor have I

As you will see from the above, there is much more to take into account than just a few passengers who find themselves put in a taxi for the last 6 miles home

Should there be more customer focus? Of course there should. But this case highlights very well the quanday that you soon run into when you have to decide on which customer needs your focus!

[grahame]

There are a number of interesting points hidden in both your post and the chain of events. Clearly I wasn’t in Westbury last night so all I’ve got to go on is RTT^» (Real Time Trains - website).

[snip]

Should there be more customer focus? Of course there should. But this case highlights very well the quanday that you soon run into when you have to decide on which customer needs your focus!

There is much in what you write Robin, and indeed I was aware of these issued and considered most if not all of them in my thoughts and suggestions, but chose to post the customer experience.

What is so sad is that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), SWR^» (South Western Railway - about), GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have chosen to replace something that worked perfectly well with something more complex, less good, and prone to additional problems and failures.  And 6 minutes, while you would not "guarantee" it, is an "official" connection - it comes up on journey planners, and in terms of onward travel in the event of failure, something is - in theory - provided (by SWR?, GWR?) and delay / repay is almost inevitably going to be due because of how long it takes.  But more than that, the new system not going to re-assure the customer who is looking for a reliable total journey, and explanations look more like excuses.

I could answer your individual points - actually I think I covered off most of them in previous posts.  Things like a laid down requirement that the ongoing train will be delayed by up to "x" minutes if necessary which answers your "who decides" - done at Par and at Swindon at times, so not exactly breaking new ground.

On a delay, there are bound to be compromises in what gets broken and, really, it should not be the main intended flow - the SWR train was retimed to 23:12 exacely to provide a service for Bristol and Bath passengers to Warminster and Salisbury - which is compromised.  Yes, I would break the connection at Salisbuy off this train - Frome/Warminster to Gillingham/Templecombe is a much less flow ...

Much better news last night, and indeed congratuations to all parties for managing to make it work with just platform 1 in use at Westbury. Brilliant work; the staff do know what and how to do things when they are allowed to use their heads rather than sacrifice connections on the altar of indivdual train statistics.