Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About
Waterloo Campaign
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 00:15 19 Aug 2022
- Owami Davies: Missing nurse could be dazed and confused on trains
- Covid pass app working again, says NHS Digital, after disruption
- Ambulance pressures: Thousands of taxis sent following 999 calls
- First Native American woman to travel to space
- Train strikes: Passengers face disruption as rail services hit
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - Imber bus day
15/09/22 - RailFuture conference, Leeds
22/09/22 - World Car Free Day
21/10/22 - TWSW General Meeting

On this day
19th Aug (2016)
Night Tube services commence (*)

Train RunningNo cancellations or delays
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 22/08 05:23 What is suppressing your train use?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
August 19, 2022, 12:34:38 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[257] Charging a higher fare because you're diverting trains - is th...
[102] Insurance and registration for cyclists?
[60] Realtime Trains sneaks through the Channel Tunnel?
[46] RMT strike action Summer 2022
[41] The last bus from Melksham to Bath
[27] E-Scooters and parks
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Rail fatality trends  (Read 1723 times)
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4965



View Profile
« on: April 06, 2022, 06:46:07 pm »

Not again...

06/04/2022 16:53

Lines have reopened between London Paddington and Reading following a person being hit by a train. Trains may still be cancelled or delayed by up to 60 minutes.

Berkshire can't be that bad, can it?

There does seem to have been an increase in such tragedies, most of which are suicides, though a minority are accidents.
Only the coroner can state which.

Has there been an ACTUAL increase in such events, or do we simply hear more about them ?
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 36661



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2022, 08:49:36 pm »

There does seem to have been an increase in such tragedies, most of which are suicides, though a minority are accidents.
Only the coroner can state which.

Has there been an ACTUAL increase in such events, or do we simply hear more about them ?


From (here) - Suicide in black, all other causes in blue. Data is for Great Britain.


Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4965



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2022, 09:11:11 pm »

Thanks for the actual figures.
Suicides fluctuate from year to year, but without any significant upward or downward trend.
Others are on a moderate downward trend.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9339


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2022, 10:10:22 pm »

I would expect the cost of living crisis we're entering to have an affect in the wrong direction sadly, but as Graham's link demonstrates overall it is a fairly static figure over the years.  There is no doubt in my mind that much better station staff training and vigilance has helped in recent years.

Would it best to split this conversation off from the main thread as it has nothing to do with infrastructure issues?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 01:05:47 pm by IndustryInsider » Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 36661



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2022, 06:23:58 am »

I would expect the cost of living crisis we're not entering to have an affect in the wrong direction sadly, but as Graham's link demonstrates overall it is a fairly static figure over the years.  There is no doubt in my mind that much better station staff training and vigilance has helped in recent years.

Would it best to split this conversation off from the main thread as it has nothing to do with infrastructure issues?

Sensible idea - split off from http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14689.msg320757#msg320757 - giving the opportunity to cover this important matter in its own topic.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3814


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2022, 08:13:37 am »

The rail industry has done a lot or work over the recent years working with Samaritans station staff have received training on identifying potential people at risk on stations, and how to approach them.

Samaritans have also act as advisors on measures to put in high risk locations, station platforms, level crossings, road over bridges etc.  Things like fast line separation fences, end of platform fences and dragons teeth, signage and even platform markings have been put in place all over the network.   All of these measures will not stop everyone who is intent on ending their lives.

It would be interesting to compare National Rail suicides to others causes 
Logged

Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him.     
Dwight D. Eisenhower
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4965



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2022, 09:42:47 am »

I would expect that the number of accidental fatalities is partly related to service frequency. If someone takes a short cut across or along a railway line, then they are more likely to be struck by a frequent service than an infrequent service.

Such fatalities may therefore have been reduced by service cutbacks due to the covid, and may unfortunately tend to increase as services return to normal.

Suicides by contrast are unlikely to be affected by service frequency. If someone is determined to jump in front of a train, then they will still so regardless of a five minute or a fifteen minute wait.

One possible anti suicide measure occurs to me. Are the road approaches to level crossings monitored by CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) ? This might be worth considering in order to detect persons or vehicles loitering without good reason and perhaps waiting for a fast train.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 274


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2022, 10:10:09 am »

Interesting figures, thanks, Graham. I suppose we've just been incredibly unlucky this week. My wife and I got stuck at Paddington for 2½ hours on Monday night (and ended up 3 hours late back to Neath, thanks to some genius in Cardiff deciding that despatching the 2315 Cardiff to Carmarthen stopper right in front of us was a sensible idea – it would only have cost TfW a fair chunk in taxis for anyone trying to connect onto their train – really incredibly stupid even for TfW) and then yesterday my wife got held up by just over an hour. Nice Delay Repay money for us, but that isn't really the point.

Electric train mentions fast line separation fences. Is there some standard that these would need to be to for the emergency services to treat the Main and Relief Lines as two separate railways, and not insist on closing one when something happens on the other? That looks like a potentially sensible investment to keep the Delay Repay expenditure down!
Logged

Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3814


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2022, 12:53:29 pm »

Electric train mentions fast line separation fences. Is there some standard that these would need to be to for the emergency services to treat the Main and Relief Lines as two separate railways, and not insist on closing one when something happens on the other? That looks like a potentially sensible investment to keep the Delay Repay expenditure down!

These are only installed on stations, open line there are normally no (permanent) fences to separate running lines
Logged

Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him.     
Dwight D. Eisenhower
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1279



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2022, 01:47:56 pm »

Quote
Quote from: TaplowGreen on Today at 06:49:13 am
I don't think it's a Berkshire thing

No and yes.  There are certainly places where people are hit by trains far more than in other places - communities in which seeking help and sorting things out is not seen as the first option, or even as an option.  And some of those are places between London and Reading.

There's surely a much simpler explanation - this part of the GW (Great Western) network runs through (or near) far more residents than the rest.
Logged
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9188



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2022, 03:14:18 pm »

In the last hour there has been another fatality, this time at Mutley Tunnel just to the east of Plymouth station.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4965



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2022, 04:42:33 am »

ISTR (I seem to recall/remember) A proposal to install blue lighting at high risk locations as this was said to reduce the risk of suicide. Cant remember if it was reported on this forum or elsewhere ?

Does anyone know, was this tried ? and did it work ?

I think that the idea originated in a Scottish city in which a major street was lit in blue for decorative effect/novelty and a decline in suicides was then observed.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Wizard
Full Member
***
Posts: 61


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2022, 02:47:29 pm »

I’ve noticed a blue light has been installed at the east end of the down main platform at Tilehurst. No idea if it’s related though.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9339


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2022, 02:54:14 pm »

I’ve noticed a blue light has been installed at the east end of the down main platform at Tilehurst. No idea if it’s related though.

Yes, I did wonder about that.  If it’s part of a trial it’s difficult to prove that it’s prevented suicides of course, as it might be several years before an attempt at any given location is made.

Blue lighting is sometimes installed in public toilets to deter drug use with needles.  That has at least been proven to work.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4965



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2022, 08:15:34 pm »

I’ve noticed a blue light has been installed at the east end of the down main platform at Tilehurst. No idea if it’s related though.

I cant see how a single blue light could deter suicide.
The proposal was that the general illumination of the area should be blue, obviously only applicable during hours of darkness or at sub-surface stations.

Blue lights are little used in railway signaling, presumably because until recently producing blue light was much harder than other colours.

AFAIK (as far as I know) a pair of blue lights are installed at the lowest point in the Severn tunnel, in order that drivers know when to increase power for the gradient ahead.
Blue lights are fitted to a very few signals and mean "proceed only in automatic mode" at a junction between conventional signalling and ATO (Automatic Train Operation) sections.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page