Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 09:15 28 Mar 2024
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
- Man suffers life-threatening injuries after train stabbing
- Baltimore Bridge Collapse
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Formal end to carrying coffins by BR (link)

Train RunningCancelled
06:57 Swansea to London Paddington
07:43 Swansea to London Paddington
08:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
08:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
09:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
09:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
09:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
09:46 Westbury to Swindon
10:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
10:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
10:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:05 Swindon to Westbury
11:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
05:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
06:38 Weymouth to Gloucester
06:54 Taunton to London Paddington
07:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
08:34 Exeter Central to Okehampton
08:38 London Paddington to Westbury
09:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
Delayed
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
05:23 London Paddington to Swansea
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
06:50 Westbury to Weymouth
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 09:13 Bristol Temple Meads to Gloucester
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 London Paddington to Oxford
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
10:50 Penzance to Cardiff Central
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 09:17:52 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[146] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[117] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[80] Return of the BRUTE?
[63] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[49] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[27] CrossCountry upgrade will see 25% more rail seats
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Penzance new sidings for 9 car IET  (Read 4411 times)
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« on: April 07, 2022, 20:26:33 »

Just saw a Network Rail press release about this, IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it opens the way for more 9 car services to Penzance,  as there are stabling problems currently for long trains.

Not sure if it’s been predicted in an existing discussion but I think it’s been a known limitation on IET (Intercity Express Train) diagramming since they started running to Cornwall?

Quote
A £6.55m investment by Network Rail and GWR (Great Western Railway) in the railway in Cornwall will see the construction of three new sidings in Penzance, helping longer trains to run and be maintained in Cornwall.

The new, longer sidings – which are effectively laybys for trains – will mean GWR will be better able to service and run longer, nine-carriage trains between London Paddington and Penzance.

The Ponsandane sidings will be built to the west of Long Rock Depot which is around one mile from Penzance station and mean Penzance will be able to accommodate longer trains by providing a dedicated place for the trains to be stored, cleaned and prepared before re-entering service.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/gbp-6-5m-railway-investment-set-to-begin-in-penzance

Paul
Logged
Richard Fairhurst
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1204


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2022, 20:28:16 »

Network Rail press release: https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/gbp-6-5m-railway-investment-set-to-begin-in-penzance

Quote
A £6.55m investment by Network Rail and GWR (Great Western Railway) in the railway in Cornwall will see the construction of three new sidings in Penzance, helping longer trains to run and be maintained in Cornwall.

The new, longer sidings – which are effectively laybys for trains – will mean GWR will be better able to service and run longer, nine-carriage trains between London Paddington and Penzance.

The Ponsandane sidings will be built to the west of Long Rock Depot which is around one mile from Penzance station and mean Penzance will be able to accommodate longer trains by providing a dedicated place for the trains to be stored, cleaned and prepared before re-entering service.

Construction of the new sidings will start later this month and is expected to be completed within a year. Once complete, the new sidings will enable an increase in capacity near the depot better allowing GWR to clean and maintain its fleet, supporting much needed business, tourism and connectivity in Cornwall.

So as I understand it, that means the Pullmans can be entirely run with 9-car IETs (Intercity Express Train), removing the last reason for five-car sets to waste space on kitchens. Maybe they might be replaced with adequate bike/luggage accommodation...?
Logged
Ralph Ayres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 336


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2022, 22:09:36 »

See also http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=26267.0.  Elsewhere https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/good-news-for-cornish-services-but-cringey-pr.230176/ the press release is being mercilessly mocked for its patronising tone.  I did find its clumsy wording and saying the same thing several times in consecutive paragraphs somewhat painful.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2022, 02:20:57 »

If FGW (First Great Western)/Hitachi can RELIABLY Diagram 9 car sets for Pullman services, then removing the kitchens from the 5 car units might be justified.
My concerns would be that for one reason or another that a pair of five car units,  would be used=No Pullman.
Removing the kitchens from the 5 car sets also "locks in" effectively forever the present policy of "nothing beyond MAYBE a trolley" in cattle class. Remember all the grand plans for hot food in standard class ? Now sunk without trace. Removing the kitchen ensures that it can NEVER be reinstated, even by a better operator in the future.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2022, 02:22:39 »

Suggest that the two recent threads on this be merged.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40687



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2022, 04:47:10 »

Suggest that the two recent threads on this be merged.

Done - this is now a merged topic
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
infoman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1286


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2022, 06:53:00 »

Just a thought,would this benefit moving several two sets around from Plymouth to Penzance and Plymouth,saving a couple of drivers?

I don't know how track access is worked out,is it a charge on a complete train,whether two sets or one one,or is it done on weight? i.e. freight trains costing more?
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2022, 12:48:30 »

If FGW (First Great Western)/Hitachi can RELIABLY Diagram 9 car sets for Pullman services, then removing the kitchens from the 5 car units might be justified.
My concerns would be that for one reason or another that a pair of five car units,  would be used=No Pullman.
Removing the kitchens from the 5 car sets also "locks in" effectively forever the present policy of "nothing beyond MAYBE a trolley" in cattle class. Remember all the grand plans for hot food in standard class ? Now sunk without trace. Removing the kitchen ensures that it can NEVER be reinstated, even by a better operator in the future.

Remember that virtually all the floor level space in the kitchen is used for storage of catering supplies in atlas carts, either refrigerated compartments or general storage bays.

Catering levels in the future will be specified by GBR (Great British Railways).  It won’t be down to the service being run by a ‘better operator’.  The omens don’t look good with the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) allowing/instructing GWR (Great Western Railway) to cut costs by removing the Rail Gourmet contract a few days ago.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2022, 14:44:14 »

Quote
IndustryInsider
Catering levels in the future will be specified by GBR (Great British Railways).  It won’t be down to the service being run by a ‘better operator’.  The omens don’t look good with the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) allowing/instructing GWR (Great Western Railway) to cut costs by removing the Rail Gourmet contract a few days ago.
Who will provide the catering on GWR services if Rail Gourmet aren’t contracted to? GWR themselves?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 15:07:04 by Timmer » Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2022, 14:49:59 »

GWR (Great Western Railway) continue to provide catering with their own staff on services where Rail Gourmet didn’t.  There’s a separate thread about it somewhere.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2022, 15:08:02 »

GWR (Great Western Railway) continue to provide catering with their own staff on services where Rail Gourmet didn’t.  There’s a separate thread about it somewhere.
Ahhh yes, the withdrawal of catering on the Cardiff-Portsmouth and Oxford-London lines:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=26135.0
Logged
REVUpminster
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 533



View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2022, 16:19:30 »

I think could also be forward planning for 5 car 800s to replace the HSTs (High Speed Train) if they can store more 9 car 800s at Penzance.

Penzance-Cardiff could run electric from Patchway.
Taunton-Cardiff trains extended to St David's platform 2 which they are supposed to have the money to extend the platform.
These trains will probably also stop at Wellington and Cullompton to supplement a hourly "Devon Metro" service.
Logged
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 301


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2022, 22:23:05 »

If FGW (First Great Western)/Hitachi can RELIABLY Diagram 9 car sets for Pullman services, then removing the kitchens from the 5 car units might be justified.
My concerns would be that for one reason or another that a pair of five car units,  would be used=No Pullman.
Removing the kitchens from the 5 car sets also "locks in" effectively forever the present policy of "nothing beyond MAYBE a trolley" in cattle class. Remember all the grand plans for hot food in standard class ? Now sunk without trace. Removing the kitchen ensures that it can NEVER be reinstated, even by a better operator in the future.

AIUI (as I understand it), the 1748 to Carmarthen is going to have a Pullman shortly. I know you'd rather they moved that bloody signal already, but will they do it?
Logged

broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2022, 05:13:30 »

I think could also be forward planning for 5 car 800s to replace the HSTs (High Speed Train) if they can store more 9 car 800s at Penzance.

Penzance-Cardiff could run electric from Patchway.
Taunton-Cardiff trains extended to St David's platform 2 which they are supposed to have the money to extend the platform.
These trains will probably also stop at Wellington and Cullompton to supplement a hourly "Devon Metro" service.

But it seems that insufficient IETs (Intercity Express Train) are available to run the present services, with many short formations reported, so is this the time to be considering how to spread an ALREADY inadequate fleet over other services. And yes I know that plans have been made for the repair of the IETs, but that is a long term project. To take 6 years officially, 10 years might be more realistic.

And of course GWR (Great Western Railway) services are still in "covid mode" Any return to a full service will need more trains, not fewer.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page