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Author Topic: Penzance new sidings for 9 car IET  (Read 1556 times)
paul7575
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« on: April 07, 2022, 08:26:33 pm »

Just saw a Network Rail press release about this, IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it opens the way for more 9 car services to Penzance,  as there are stabling problems currently for long trains.

Not sure if it’s been predicted in an existing discussion but I think it’s been a known limitation on IET (Intercity Express Train) diagramming since they started running to Cornwall?

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A £6.55m investment by Network Rail and GWR (Great Western Railway) in the railway in Cornwall will see the construction of three new sidings in Penzance, helping longer trains to run and be maintained in Cornwall.

The new, longer sidings – which are effectively laybys for trains – will mean GWR will be better able to service and run longer, nine-carriage trains between London Paddington and Penzance.

The Ponsandane sidings will be built to the west of Long Rock Depot which is around one mile from Penzance station and mean Penzance will be able to accommodate longer trains by providing a dedicated place for the trains to be stored, cleaned and prepared before re-entering service.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/gbp-6-5m-railway-investment-set-to-begin-in-penzance

Paul
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2022, 08:28:16 pm »

Network Rail press release: https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/gbp-6-5m-railway-investment-set-to-begin-in-penzance

Quote
A £6.55m investment by Network Rail and GWR (Great Western Railway) in the railway in Cornwall will see the construction of three new sidings in Penzance, helping longer trains to run and be maintained in Cornwall.

The new, longer sidings – which are effectively laybys for trains – will mean GWR will be better able to service and run longer, nine-carriage trains between London Paddington and Penzance.

The Ponsandane sidings will be built to the west of Long Rock Depot which is around one mile from Penzance station and mean Penzance will be able to accommodate longer trains by providing a dedicated place for the trains to be stored, cleaned and prepared before re-entering service.

Construction of the new sidings will start later this month and is expected to be completed within a year. Once complete, the new sidings will enable an increase in capacity near the depot better allowing GWR to clean and maintain its fleet, supporting much needed business, tourism and connectivity in Cornwall.

So as I understand it, that means the Pullmans can be entirely run with 9-car IETs (Intercity Express Train), removing the last reason for five-car sets to waste space on kitchens. Maybe they might be replaced with adequate bike/luggage accommodation...?
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Ralph Ayres
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2022, 10:09:36 pm »

See also http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=26267.0.  Elsewhere https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/good-news-for-cornish-services-but-cringey-pr.230176/ the press release is being mercilessly mocked for its patronising tone.  I did find its clumsy wording and saying the same thing several times in consecutive paragraphs somewhat painful.
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broadgage
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2022, 02:20:57 am »

If FGW (First Great Western)/Hitachi can RELIABLY Diagram 9 car sets for Pullman services, then removing the kitchens from the 5 car units might be justified.
My concerns would be that for one reason or another that a pair of five car units,  would be used=No Pullman.
Removing the kitchens from the 5 car sets also "locks in" effectively forever the present policy of "nothing beyond MAYBE a trolley" in cattle class. Remember all the grand plans for hot food in standard class ? Now sunk without trace. Removing the kitchen ensures that it can NEVER be reinstated, even by a better operator in the future.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2022, 02:22:39 am »

Suggest that the two recent threads on this be merged.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2022, 04:47:10 am »

Suggest that the two recent threads on this be merged.

Done - this is now a merged topic
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infoman
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2022, 06:53:00 am »

Just a thought,would this benefit moving several two sets around from Plymouth to Penzance and Plymouth,saving a couple of drivers?

I don't know how track access is worked out,is it a charge on a complete train,whether two sets or one one,or is it done on weight? i.e. freight trains costing more?
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2022, 12:48:30 pm »

If FGW (First Great Western)/Hitachi can RELIABLY Diagram 9 car sets for Pullman services, then removing the kitchens from the 5 car units might be justified.
My concerns would be that for one reason or another that a pair of five car units,  would be used=No Pullman.
Removing the kitchens from the 5 car sets also "locks in" effectively forever the present policy of "nothing beyond MAYBE a trolley" in cattle class. Remember all the grand plans for hot food in standard class ? Now sunk without trace. Removing the kitchen ensures that it can NEVER be reinstated, even by a better operator in the future.

Remember that virtually all the floor level space in the kitchen is used for storage of catering supplies in atlas carts, either refrigerated compartments or general storage bays.

Catering levels in the future will be specified by GBR (Great British Railways).  It won’t be down to the service being run by a ‘better operator’.  The omens don’t look good with the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) allowing/instructing GWR (Great Western Railway) to cut costs by removing the Rail Gourmet contract a few days ago.
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Timmer
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2022, 02:44:14 pm »

Quote
IndustryInsider
Catering levels in the future will be specified by GBR (Great British Railways).  It won’t be down to the service being run by a ‘better operator’.  The omens don’t look good with the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) allowing/instructing GWR (Great Western Railway) to cut costs by removing the Rail Gourmet contract a few days ago.
Who will provide the catering on GWR services if Rail Gourmet aren’t contracted to? GWR themselves?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 03:07:04 pm by Timmer » Logged
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2022, 02:49:59 pm »

GWR (Great Western Railway) continue to provide catering with their own staff on services where Rail Gourmet didn’t.  There’s a separate thread about it somewhere.
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Timmer
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2022, 03:08:02 pm »

GWR (Great Western Railway) continue to provide catering with their own staff on services where Rail Gourmet didn’t.  There’s a separate thread about it somewhere.
Ahhh yes, the withdrawal of catering on the Cardiff-Portsmouth and Oxford-London lines:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=26135.0
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REVUpminster
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2022, 04:19:30 pm »

I think could also be forward planning for 5 car 800s to replace the HSTs (High Speed Train) if they can store more 9 car 800s at Penzance.

Penzance-Cardiff could run electric from Patchway.
Taunton-Cardiff trains extended to St David's platform 2 which they are supposed to have the money to extend the platform.
These trains will probably also stop at Wellington and Cullompton to supplement a hourly "Devon Metro" service.
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jamestheredengine
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2022, 10:23:05 pm »

If FGW (First Great Western)/Hitachi can RELIABLY Diagram 9 car sets for Pullman services, then removing the kitchens from the 5 car units might be justified.
My concerns would be that for one reason or another that a pair of five car units,  would be used=No Pullman.
Removing the kitchens from the 5 car sets also "locks in" effectively forever the present policy of "nothing beyond MAYBE a trolley" in cattle class. Remember all the grand plans for hot food in standard class ? Now sunk without trace. Removing the kitchen ensures that it can NEVER be reinstated, even by a better operator in the future.

AIUI (as I understand it), the 1748 to Carmarthen is going to have a Pullman shortly. I know you'd rather they moved that bloody signal already, but will they do it?
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2022, 05:13:30 am »

I think could also be forward planning for 5 car 800s to replace the HSTs (High Speed Train) if they can store more 9 car 800s at Penzance.

Penzance-Cardiff could run electric from Patchway.
Taunton-Cardiff trains extended to St David's platform 2 which they are supposed to have the money to extend the platform.
These trains will probably also stop at Wellington and Cullompton to supplement a hourly "Devon Metro" service.

But it seems that insufficient IETs (Intercity Express Train) are available to run the present services, with many short formations reported, so is this the time to be considering how to spread an ALREADY inadequate fleet over other services. And yes I know that plans have been made for the repair of the IETs, but that is a long term project. To take 6 years officially, 10 years might be more realistic.

And of course GWR (Great Western Railway) services are still in "covid mode" Any return to a full service will need more trains, not fewer.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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