Rail Strike Looming

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

However it would seem that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) (aka DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) / No10) have made a 2.5% pay offer from 1st July 2022 to the TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) for management grades, the TSSA have said this offer does not resolve the dispute ..................... negotiations / haggling continues

Good to see at least one rail union doing things correctly and negotiating before resorting to a strike ballot. I expect ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) will be/are doing the same.

[IndustryInsider]

A belief? Any corroboration?

Last week the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) urged the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) to come to the negotiating table. Saying they were disappointed that the RMT had balloted for strike action before entering negotiations. Someone's lying. Much as I loathe the current government I believe them in this instance.

Only what I’ve heard (hence my wording).  Though I’ve heard it straight from the mouth of a union branch secretary.

The RMT have been at the negotiating table subsequent to the ballot result.  What is unclear is what offer to negotiate took place from either party before the ballot.

I believe (there I go again) that ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) are balloting in the next few days.

I’m not sure I believe either side, especially given the sneaky way the DfT have been operating recently.  In many ways they’re welcome to each other.

[TaplowGreen]

A belief? Any corroboration?

Last week the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) urged the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) to come to the negotiating table. Saying they were disappointed that the RMT had balloted for strike action before entering negotiations. Someone's lying. Much as I loathe the current government I believe them in this instance.

Only what I’ve heard (hence my wording).  Though I’ve heard it straight from the mouth of a union branch secretary.

The RMT have been at the negotiating table subsequent to the ballot result.  What is unclear is what offer to negotiate took place from either party before the ballot.

I believe (there I go again) that ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) are balloting in the next few days.

I’m not sure I believe either side, especially given the sneaky way the DfT have been operating recently.  In many ways they’re welcome to each other.

ASLEF rejected 4.2% from Scotrail yesterday.

RDG^‡(resolve), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT have all confirmed that the RMT balloted for strike action/action short of a strike without engaging in meaningful discussions first.

Important to remember that Lynch, Gordon, Dempsey and the rest of them have a political agenda which somewhat transcends the accepted norms in this respect, which whilst often strained, could at least be constructive.

A look at the RMT's political affiliations is quite enlightening.

[Electric train]

However it would seem that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) (aka DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) / No10) have made a 2.5% pay offer from 1st July 2022 to the TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) for management grades, the TSSA have said this offer does not resolve the dispute ..................... negotiations / haggling continues

Good to see at least one rail union doing things correctly and negotiating before resorting to a strike ballot. I expect ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) will be/are doing the same.

The TSSA did hold a strike ballot which came out as resounding yes vote

[ellendune]

RDG^‡(resolve), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have all confirmed that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) balloted for strike action/action short of a strike without engaging in meaningful discussions first.

Who decides what is meaningful?

[stuving]

RDG^‡(resolve), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have all confirmed that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) balloted for strike action/action short of a strike without engaging in meaningful discussions first.

Who decides what is meaningful?

Quite. I imagine that the employers will say "we've been trying to negotiate for some time" and the unions will say "DfT's instructions have taken so much off the table that no real negotiation is possible".

[IndustryInsider]

RDG^‡(resolve), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have all confirmed that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) balloted for strike action/action short of a strike without engaging in meaningful discussions first.

Makes it sound like the RMT weren't interested in meaningful discussions, doesn't it?  However, Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine, says in a very good latest editorial that the DfT only gave Network Rail permission to start formal discussions with the unions less than a week before the RMT ballot result was in.

Why weren't they given permission earlier I wonder?

Anyway, now discussions are ongoing, hopefully a resolution can be found that avoids widespread strikes.

[Electric train]

RDG^‡(resolve), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have all confirmed that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) balloted for strike action/action short of a strike without engaging in meaningful discussions first.

Makes it sound like the RMT weren't interested in meaningful discussions, doesn't it?  However, Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine, says in a very good latest editorial that the DfT only gave Network Rail permission to start formal discussions with the unions less than a week before the RMT ballot result was in.

Why weren't they given permission earlier I wonder?

Anyway, now discussions are ongoing, hopefully a resolution can be found that avoids widespread strikes.

Absolutely correct, NR Exc started talks with the Unions several months ago but there were no firm proposals put before the Unions by the Exc, the phase was 'we are just looking at ideas and want staff involvement' it was this approach ie no firm proposals that got the Unions and their members backs up.  There are normally good but robust relations between NR Exc and the Unions

[TaplowGreen]

RDG^‡(resolve), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have all confirmed that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) balloted for strike action/action short of a strike without engaging in meaningful discussions first.

Makes it sound like the RMT weren't interested in meaningful discussions, doesn't it?  However, Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine, says in a very good latest editorial that the DfT only gave Network Rail permission to start formal discussions with the unions less than a week before the RMT ballot result was in.

Why weren't they given permission earlier I wonder?

Anyway, now discussions are ongoing, hopefully a resolution can be found that avoids widespread strikes.

Absolutely correct, NR Exc started talks with the Unions several months ago but there were no firm proposals put before the Unions by the Exc, the phase was 'we are just looking at ideas and want staff involvement' it was this approach ie no firm proposals that got the Unions and their members backs up.  There are normally good but robust relations between NR Exc and the Unions

Do you have a citation/source for that?

It'd certainly help the RMT's case if verified.

[jbsdjr]

The key issue for me (and I suspect if the truth is known  Mark Hopwood and his teams) is the current stranglehold on GWER services that the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have as a result of not yet allowing Mark asnd his teams to operate without their heavy hand.  Thus they could tell Mark that he must shut every booking office across the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) system (and that is a real threat) as they told GWR to get rid pof the through trains to Brighton (on the stupid premise that people didn't travel all the way to Great Malvern from Brighton). Coupled with telling SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) that the Bristol to London through trains should be scrapped, the DfT (who clearly know little or nothing about transport) are simply as one RAIL magazine writer stated "timkering at the edges".  we know for a fact that 50 people had to be turned away from the GWR Brighton train whoich showed its popularity and it was significant that SWR managers (because they knew full well it would undermine the DfT's case chose not to reinstate the most popular early morning rain of the day from Bristol.  When there is an nexistential threat to hard working an much needed station staff it is little wonder the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) had such a resounding yes and I don't blame them at all.  It will be interesting to see whether the local MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) pay lip service to the threat of staff redundancies in their patch and complain in the full knowledge that the cuts will go through or whether they are prepared to save their less than safe seats (for example that of Michelle Donelan) by actually doing something to stop the proposed cuts.  It would be ironic if staff cuts end in their own tenure as an MP being cut.  We shall see.

[grahame]

The key issue for me ....

Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum and your first post.   You are, I think personally, pretty accurate for the most part in the analysis - and if we all accept that, it leads to questions such as:

* Why are the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) being so heavy handed, and in the direction they are going?

* How can we as passengers, and passenger group / campaigners best help those who see things differently to the DfT  organisation's steer where we feel it is to the detriment of current and future public transport use

[Electric train]

RDG^‡(resolve), NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) have all confirmed that the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) balloted for strike action/action short of a strike without engaging in meaningful discussions first.

Makes it sound like the RMT weren't interested in meaningful discussions, doesn't it?  However, Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine, says in a very good latest editorial that the DfT only gave Network Rail permission to start formal discussions with the unions less than a week before the RMT ballot result was in.

Why weren't they given permission earlier I wonder?

Anyway, now discussions are ongoing, hopefully a resolution can be found that avoids widespread strikes.

Absolutely correct, NR Exc started talks with the Unions several months ago but there were no firm proposals put before the Unions by the Exc, the phase was 'we are just looking at ideas and want staff involvement' it was this approach ie no firm proposals that got the Unions and their members backs up.  There are normally good but robust relations between NR Exc and the Unions

Do you have a citation/source for that?

It'd certainly help the RMT's case if verified.

The RMT and the other Unions know this they do not need a citation as the Excu teams negotiating position has been stated to them and appears in internal comms

[GBM]

The key issue for me (and I suspect if the truth is known  Mark Hopwood and his teams) is the current stranglehold on GWER services that the ..................

Again, unless something can be confirmed in print, it's the union at fault, and they should totally accept whatever pay and conditions are given (offered!) without question. Well, OK, perhaps say "We don't like what's on offer, and it is a pay cut, with having to work more hours as well. But we won't strike, and accept it this time without further problems".

Why is it always the unions fault?  Nothing to do with the members who it seems, are so brainwashed/right wing, that they will do anything they are told by the branch secretary.

Everyone has a view of who is right and who is therefore wrong.
Like politics really.

[DaveHarries]

ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) rejected 4.2% from Scotrail yesterday.

SOunds high enough to me: how much are they holding out for?

Dave

[ellendune]

Again, unless something can be confirmed in print, it's the union at fault,

Why?