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Author Topic: Rail Strike Looming  (Read 7997 times)
PhilWakely
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« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2022, 11:25:30 am »

I've just been listening to a discussion on Channel 5. Why is it that all of the critics believe that all staff on the railway are drivers earning £60K+ ?

There are platform staff, ticket office staff, cleaners and others - all earning significantly less than drivers.
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Timmer
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« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2022, 11:38:15 am »

I've just been listening to a discussion on Channel 5. Why is it that all of the critics believe that all staff on the railway are drivers earning £60K+ ?

There are platform staff, ticket office staff, cleaners and others - all earning significantly less than drivers.
Sadly Phil in most people's minds all they think about is the person who drives the trains. Though these days, with so many stations having no staff whatsoever and trains operated by DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), it's easy to understand why many people think the only person who works on the railways is the train driver.
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JayMac
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« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2022, 02:13:29 pm »

Video response on social media to the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) ballot from GWR (Great Western Railway)'s Mark Hopwood:

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1529442805084561409
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grahame
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« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2022, 03:48:36 pm »

Quote
Dear Graham
 
You may have seen the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)’s announcement last night announcing a vote in favour of taking industrial action. This affects not only GWR (Great Western Railway) but other Train Operating Companies across England, and Network Rail too. The RMT National Executive Committee is considering the result and they will let us know their decision in due course, with no strike dates announced as yet.
 
While we are disappointed with the result, we do understand the issues raised. We very much welcome the opportunity to talk with the RMT to avert strike action, and we already have dates in the diary to discuss this. Throughout the pandemic, the railway industry has received over £16bn of taxpayer support to keep the railways running and I believe everyone recognises that this is not sustainable, with the industry going forward taking no more than its fair share. I do not want to see the post-Covid recovery that our teams at GWR and colleagues and stakeholders across the industry have been working towards damaged, nor the case for the changes needed to secure jobs and services into the future.
 
While we hope we can reach an agreement through discussions with the Trades Unions, we continue to develop contingency plans should strike action take place, and my team and I will keep you updated.
 
I have also shared a video for our customer and stakeholders on our social media, which is available to view here.
 
Best wishes
 
Mark
 
Mark Hopwood CBE | Managing Director | Great Western Railway
Milford House | 1 Milford Street | Swindon | SN1 1HL
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broadgage
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« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2022, 04:48:20 pm »

I've just been listening to a discussion on Channel 5. Why is it that all of the critics believe that all staff on the railway are drivers earning £60K+ ?

There are platform staff, ticket office staff, cleaners and others - all earning significantly less than drivers.
Sadly Phil in most people's minds all they think about is the person who drives the trains. Though these days, with so many stations having no staff whatsoever and trains operated by DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), it's easy to understand why many people think the only person who works on the railways is the train driver.

The RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) might get more sympathy if they called for a flat rate increase of say £2,000 for all full time railway staff, pro rata for part time. That would be only about 2%  for those on about £60,000 and nearly 10% for the lowest paid.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2022, 05:31:35 pm »

There was a pretty crude attack on the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) leadership in yesterday's Times, based on their pay, Marxist tendencies, and support of Putin's Russia over the Crimea. Very short on analysis - more what you's expect in the Mail, really,

Now I can't see any scandal in the top three officials being paid around £100K, and if Mick Lynch doesn't love bosses it could have a lot ot do with his being blacklisted by the construction employers. But with Alex Gordon (president) in particular, he's in the leadership of CPGB, which has been following the Kremlin's propaganda even since all pretence of socialism was dropped. I find that baffling, but then the fact that CPGB still exists takes some believing.
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broadgage
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« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2022, 05:59:26 pm »

Support for Soviet/communist Russia was pretty much a requirement for any left wing trades union back in the good old days.

The fact that today's russia is neither soviet nor communist will take a long a while to penetrate. The present russian leadership and actions have more in common with the nazis of the last war, but despite this I hear little if any criticism from the various left wing and "anti nazi" groups.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 07:49:24 pm by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Henry
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« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2022, 06:36:08 pm »

 Talking to rail staff in South Devon the emphasis was, surprisingly, not pay.
  The 'toxic' relationship between staff and management seemed to be a
  major issue.
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Phil
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« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2022, 06:53:28 pm »

Thanks for the heads up Chris. Sadly, I think it's an odds on certainty that the vote will go the way of strike action. Won't be booking any rail related travel for June.

Sadly I already have, & will be watching this saga unfold with interest. Our daughter's getting married in Scotland on 11th June and  the advance rail tickets (first class no less!) have been bought and paid for already. I've seen strike action is threatened for "mid June" so I'm keeping everything I have two of crossed that we can still get there, even if getting back will be a problem...
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Timmer
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« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2022, 07:25:18 pm »

Sadly I already have, & will be watching this saga unfold with interest. Our daughter's getting married in Scotland on 11th June and  the advance rail tickets (first class no less!) have been bought and paid for already. I've seen strike action is threatened for "mid June" so I'm keeping everything I have two of crossed that we can still get there, even if getting back will be a problem...
Me too Phil. Wedding anniversary long weekend away that weekend and instead of choosing to go abroad or somewhere by car chose the train. Hoping that wasn’t a mistake and that mid June really means mid June.
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broadgage
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« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2022, 07:27:11 pm »

Talking to rail staff in South Devon the emphasis was, surprisingly, not pay.
  The 'toxic' relationship between staff and management seemed to be a
  major issue.

Interested to hear this.
There does seem to be a type of manager who consider that if staff under their control are happy at work, that the manager is not doing their job.
Common in some industries, and perhaps now infesting the railways.

As an example I once worked for a manager who deducted 30 minutes pay for a 5 minutes late arrival. He seemed outraged when staff thus affected stated "in that case, if I arrive at say 08-05 and should have arrived at 08-00, then I wont start working until 08-30 if that is when you start paying me" And as for staying an extra few minutes at the end of the day, forget it.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2022, 07:48:28 pm »

The driver behind all this is No 10, the political pressures on the Exec Teams of the enormous, I get the sense that the Exec do not have the freedom to negotiate with the Unions without refereeing back to No 10.

There is a lot of unrest at grassroots level and management level, it is highly likely that during any industrial action managers may just work their contracted hours whether in a Union or not

Managers who know which side their bread is buttered may well step up. Particularly as they are the grade that could see redundancies first. They may want to prove their worth while the troops are blindly led into battle by Mick Lynch.

Much as I can't stand this government I do think they are up for the fight. I don't think this is a battle the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) will win.

The 'modernising management' within Network Rail has been completed letters are being issued this week, effects about 10% of the management grades the rest are expected to pick up the pieces
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2022, 08:11:32 pm »

There was a pretty crude attack on the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) leadership in yesterday's Times, based on their pay, Marxist tendencies, and support of Putin's Russia over the Crimea. Very short on analysis - more what you's expect in the Mail, really,

Now I can't see any scandal in the top three officials being paid around £100K, and if Mick Lynch doesn't love bosses it could have a lot ot do with his being blacklisted by the construction employers. But with Alex Gordon (president) in particular, he's in the leadership of CPGB, which has been following the Kremlin's propaganda even since all pretence of socialism was dropped. I find that baffling, but then the fact that CPGB still exists takes some believing.

They've tended to feature some pretty unsavoury characters;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rmt-union-boss-suspended-boris-johnson-coronavirus-steve-hedley-a9459706.html

(The late) Bob Crow was also a notable member of CPGB.
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broadgage
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« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2022, 08:47:46 pm »

Much as I can't stand this government I do think they are up for the fight. I don't think this is a battle the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) will win.

I really fear that the customers of the rail industry will lose.  What an archaic way to sort out your differences!

There is an alternative system, used IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) in some Nordic countries. Known as "pendulum arbitration" whereby an independent panel of experts choose NOT a compromise between the two sides, but declare in TOTAL favour of whichever side they believe to be the more reasonable. For example if the employer offers a 6% rise, and the employees demand 12%, then the arbitration panel MUST award Either 6% or 12%, whichever they believe to be more reasonable, but are NOT allowed to award a compromise of say 9% This system encourages moderate offers by both sides since the more extreme are the demands made, the more likely it is that the panel will find in favour of the other side.
The result is legally binding for I think 12 months, after which the process may be repeated.

This is in contrast to the UK (United Kingdom) process whereby the unions demand say 20% in the hope of actually achieving about 10%, whilst the employer offers perhaps 3% in the hope of ending up paying no more than say 6% After a strike each side almost always gets part of what they wanted, hence the importance of taking an extreme position initialy.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
eightonedee
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« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2022, 11:31:01 pm »

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But with Alex Gordon (president) in particular, he's in the leadership of CPGB, which has been following the Kremlin's propaganda even since all pretence of socialism was dropped. I find that baffling, but then the fact that CPGB still exists takes some believing.

It always struck me that the extremes on either end of the political spectrum have more in common with each other than with those closer to their side of the centre - as the tragic history of the 20th century graphically illustrates. Now  they are all united by their love of hatred.....and the two most aggressively expansionist nationalistic regimes are the "harking back to the good old days of the Soviet Union" Russians and the Peoples Republic of China.
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