Rail Strike Looming

[whole diary]

[eightonedee]

Quote from: grahame on Today at 08:04:17 am
Coming in from left field, and going way off piste ...

Is there a case for turning things around in a similar way at railway stations?

I don’t think that’s left field at all.  It’s already happening to some degree on the railway and there will clearly be no long term future for ticket offices as we know them.

Coming in from further left field...

I have often wondered why non-one has taken the old French carnet system (which if I recall correctly enabled you to buy bundles of tickets at non-rail outlets ) further.  Why doesn't someone develop a system whereby you can buy tickets at Post Office and convenience stores, perhaps through a computer terminal?

I know that there seems to be a move towards making all sales through mobile phones, but (as I have moaned before!) not everyone wants to have one and it seems to me that there's far more social exclusion in effectively limiting rail travel to those with  mobile phones than a lot of the other alleged sources of social exclusion we constantly hear about. It's not just the cost, by the way. There was an elderly person on the radio recently complaining that her arthritis made using touch screen mobile phones almost impossible, yet in her home town most car parks operated the (awful?) "Ringo" system that involves "downloading an app" to her phone, rather than the much-easier-to-use contactless credit card machines that are now, mercifully, spreading.

So - a challenge for a modern user friendly railway - outlets for tickets at shops please - and a simplified fare structure so you don't get stuck behind someone trying to split their ticket to London at Slough when using it would be nice, too.

[Bmblbzzz]

Railways could be said to have pioneered the de-staffing of sales points – unstaffed stations were normal at least as long ago as the 1970s, and I would expect that nowadays the majority of stations (by number of stations, but not by number of passengers) have no staffing whatsoever. But that was really just displacing the sales point from station to train. We had to wait for the automatic ticket machines for staff-less ticket sales, and I think that arrived about the same time as self-checkouts in supermarkets. Both of course were significantly after the invention of the banking ATM^‡(resolve). What railways don't have is something that every supermarket does – staff to help you use the self-service machines!

[TaplowGreen]

Coming in from left field, and going way off piste ...

Is there a case for turning things around in a similar way at railway stations?

I don’t think that’s left field at all.  It’s already happening to some degree on the railway and there will clearly be no long term future for ticket offices as we know them.

Hard to disagree with that view with the advance of technology.

Do the Unions have a view on this in terms of ticket offices closing? Is it part of the current dispute or is it another one we have to look forward to?

[IndustryInsider]

Almost all ‘white collar’ staff are members of the TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) union, so separate to the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) and with very little power to wield.

[Electric train]

Almost all ‘white collar’ staff are members of the TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about) union, so separate to the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) and with very little power to wield.

Except certain signalling and electrical control room grades, also if the TSSA coordinate their action with the RMT the planned use of trained management in contingency rolls could fall apart very quickly.

The last time the TSSA had vote to take industrial action short of strike action ie now working outside contracted hours signallers, electrical control room, route control, maintenance teams said they could not work safely if there was not a line manager on duty ....................... there just isn't enough Exc grade staff with the safety Competencies cover the line management rolls

[IndustryInsider]

Yes indeed.  My reply was directed at the ticket office staffing at TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) level rather than Network Rail/management level.

[ellendune]

Yes indeed.  My reply was directed at the ticket office staffing at TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) level rather than Network Rail/management level.

If ticket offices are to be reduced then the software on ticket vending machines needs to be massively improved. 

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, I agree.  Although I suspect ticket vending machines will also largely become a thing of the past in the coming years, as e-tickets/passes will quickly become established as the primary way of obtaining authority to travel.

[PhilWakely]

With the demise of ticket offices, I suspect that the cheapest option will rarely be offered.

A friend will be walking from Appleby to Whitby in July. It'll be interesting to know whether any automated solution will offer an Off-Peak Return from Exeter to Leeds and singles from Leeds to Appleby and Whitby to Leeds or will the traveller be expected to have a high degree of knowledge to request such an option?

[TaplowGreen]

Before anyone points it out, yes I'm aware it's the Daily Mail, but the pictures do say a lot - these do not seem to be very pleasant people.

Hedley of course was the charming character who the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) actually suspended for promising to throw a party if Boris Johnson died  - whilst he was in intensive care with COVID.

Now there's irony for you. He doesn't seem to have learned much from it..............

 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10862359/EXPOSED-Trade-union-bosses-rabid-sympathies-Russian-dictator-Vladimir-Putin.html

[JayMac]

Communist dinosaurs. Sadly there doesn't appear to be an approaching extinction event for the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) leaders. While their members lose money by striking, Mick, Steve and co will continue to rake in their healthy salaries.

It amazes me that so many, apparently sane, RMT members buy into their outdated witterings and union methods.

For the record, I'm not anti-union. I'm anti-RMT.

[Electric train]

Communist dinosaurs. Sadly there doesn't appear to be an approaching extinction event for the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) leaders. While their members lose money by striking, Mick, Steve and co will continue to rake in their healthy salaries.

It amazes me that so many, apparently sane, RMT members buy into their outdated witterings and union methods.

For the record, I'm not anti-union. I'm anti-RMT.

You must not underestimate to discontent of the grassroots railway workers.  The ballot for industrial action has been something the grassroots has wanted the RMT to hold several months ago.  Even the non Union staff are discontent and my not cover turns outside their contracted hours, overtime is voluntary.

It would be a mistake to tar the average RMT, TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about), ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) etc members as card carrying members of the communist party.  The leadership of trade unions is as democratic and transparent if not more so as the election of the leader of the conservative party, labour party etc.

Just to be clear I am not a member of a Trade Union

[TaplowGreen]

Communist dinosaurs. Sadly there doesn't appear to be an approaching extinction event for the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) leaders. While their members lose money by striking, Mick, Steve and co will continue to rake in their healthy salaries.

It amazes me that so many, apparently sane, RMT members buy into their outdated witterings and union methods.

For the record, I'm not anti-union. I'm anti-RMT.

You must not underestimate to discontent of the grassroots railway workers.  The ballot for industrial action has been something the grassroots has wanted the RMT to hold several months ago.  Even the non Union staff are discontent and my not cover turns outside their contracted hours, overtime is voluntary.

It would be a mistake to tar the average RMT, TSSA^» (Transport Salaried Staffs' Association - about), ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) etc members as card carrying members of the communist party.  The leadership of trade unions is as democratic and transparent if not more so as the election of the leader of the conservative party, labour party etc.

Just to be clear I am not a member of a Trade Union

I don't think there was any suggestion from BNM that the membership of the RMT are communists (the membership of the NUM largely weren't either, remember them?) but the fish rots from the head down.

For the leadership of a significant British Trade Union to have been showing solidarity with the current Russian regime beggars belief.

Perhaps it's time for the ordinary, decent membership to rise up and put someone with more appropriate views and perspective on World events in charge - I am sure those thus unseated would appreciate the irony, given the Communist fondness for revolution.

[Bmblbzzz]

With the demise of ticket offices, I suspect that the cheapest option will rarely be offered.

A friend will be walking from Appleby to Whitby in July. It'll be interesting to know whether any automated solution will offer an Off-Peak Return from Exeter to Leeds and singles from Leeds to Appleby and Whitby to Leeds or will the traveller be expected to have a high degree of knowledge to request such an option?

The traveller already requires a high level of knowledge to request such an option. Staff at a ticket office might suggest it to you but AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) they are not obliged to.

[ellendune]

Yes, I agree.  Although I suspect ticket vending machines will also largely become a thing of the past in the coming years, as e-tickets/passes will quickly become established as the primary way of obtaining authority to travel.

What about the minority who are and I suspect will still be in the future unable or unwilling to use the internet?