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Author Topic: Rail unions strike action 2022/2023/2024  (Read 81767 times)
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #450 on: January 08, 2023, 22:04:06 »

Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them.

Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.
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« Reply #451 on: January 09, 2023, 07:31:24 »

Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them.

Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

But it is an issue for many NR» (Network Rail - home page) staff
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« Reply #452 on: January 09, 2023, 09:29:11 »

..... Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. This would mean employing considerably more staff and with that the associated contributions the employer would be required to make. .....

Wouldn't it be lovely if the TOCs (Train Operating Company) and, more especially, our government acted as if they gave a toss about what the travelling public needed? It has evidently not occurred to these imbeciles people that if they employ enough staff to deliver as close to a 100% reliable service as is possible passenger numbers will increase significantly (cf. pre-pandemic rail journeys which peaked at 1.8bn annually against the current c. 1.35bn) and the exercise very likely attains, or betters, cost neutrality with consequent higher revenues and profits.
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« Reply #453 on: January 09, 2023, 09:56:26 »

Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them.

Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

But that wording seems to be the same ast the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) offer doesn't it? Both press releases seemed to talk about keeping as overtime, but putting measures in place to make sure people couldn't pull out beforehand and screw the service up I think.
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« Reply #454 on: January 09, 2023, 10:03:28 »

Yes, that pretty much sums it up.
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« Reply #455 on: January 09, 2023, 10:19:47 »

Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

When the offer made to ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays.

No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered?  If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present.
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« Reply #456 on: January 09, 2023, 10:37:27 »

Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays.

No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered?  If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present.

It's possible and any agreement would need to have maximums agreed.  I don't expect there to be a huge uplift in services on a Sunday - several routes already run at Saturday frequency levels (with a later start up) -  but just an expectation that those that are scheduled to run, will run.  The driver links that have committed Sunday's already have not seen any extra Sunday's added over the many years that has been the case, staying at one in three - and it's very noticeable that Sunday cancellations on services crewed by those depots/links are pretty rare.
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« Reply #457 on: January 09, 2023, 12:52:50 »

Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week.

When the offer made to ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now.

Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays.

No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered?  If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present.

Certainly for the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) side of things, the internal stuff I've seen makes clear that there is an opt-out for those who don't work Sundays. Assume the precise frequency would be negotiated locally?
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« Reply #458 on: January 09, 2023, 16:24:53 »

From an ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) communication from the General Secretary to members:

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Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs (Train Operating Company). This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG(resolve)’s offer.
 
We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it.
 
They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond.
 
We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken.
 
That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January.
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« Reply #459 on: January 10, 2023, 07:11:35 »

From an ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) communication from the General Secretary to members:

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Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs (Train Operating Company). This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG(resolve)’s offer.
 
We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it.
 
They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond.
 
We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken.
 
That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January.

Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........
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« Reply #460 on: January 10, 2023, 11:37:40 »

Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........

If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html
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« Reply #461 on: January 10, 2023, 13:01:52 »

Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........

If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html

I have sadly come to the conclusion that in order to be a major successful public figure, most aspirers need to do things rather beyond what others would see as normal or acceptable limits and then have the balls (or gender neutral equivalent), spunk, street-wise nouse to carry them off.     Which means that we find ourselves lead by a lot of people we don't feel are very nice, however effective they may be.   There are some who seem to fit the nice mould - I am pretty sure a few of those may simply be clever enough to ride (or hide) the issues, but I'm equally sure that some are genuine.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2023, 15:41:01 by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #462 on: January 11, 2023, 05:15:10 »

Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views.........

If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html

Mudslinging implicitly suggests unfairness and/or unjustness.

I don't think it's either unfair or unjust to challenge the appropriateness of a senior member of a British Trade Union associating himself and sharing that platform with a who's who of racists, anti-semites, atrocity revisionists, Putin apologists and some who are in the employment of Russian and Iranian Governments or propaganda outlets.

In fact I note that the venue has subsequently thought better of it and cancelled the event - good on them.

I'm obviously happy to hear any counter argument to this, and in the words of one of the other eminent panel members, I salute the strength, courage and indefatigability of anyone who has one.
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« Reply #463 on: January 11, 2023, 07:03:14 »

I think it’s very interesting that nobody decided to actually comment on the content of the statement I quoted given its significance.

Instead, all it prompted was a trip to Google to search for Andy Hudd.
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« Reply #464 on: January 11, 2023, 08:08:13 »

I think it’s very interesting that nobody decided to actually comment on the content of the statement I quoted given its significance.

Instead, all it prompted was a trip to Google to search for Andy Hudd.

Good choice of words.   Many posts here tend to silently inform members and the like / feedback tends to come on the  side shoots.  I do know (from various checks) that content is often read and taken in, even if it gets no responses (even as small as a like), and that's especially the case where the topic has significant controversy.

With the current industrial issues, I personally watch with enormous interest but virtually no comment. It is an emotional fight, perhaps of political principle, between various parties none of whom have passengers at top of their agenda (we are a necessary corollary to all of them, no more) and we have no real say in sorting out the problem, even assuming we consider it a problem - some though not many members, I suspect, see it as an opportunity.

It is indeed sad where we drop towards name-calling and the moderator / admin team will pick up, when we notice, if things go too far.  At the same time, it is valid to ask Google "who is he" about the players involved as it helps us understand where they are coming from and perhaps motivations.

So - II thank you for that post; I suspect it is read but not acknowledged / followed up as you might have expected.  It is certainly valued in moving information forward.

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