Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 07:35 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
06:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
07:20 Reading to Gatwick Airport
07:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
07:49 Bedwyn to Newbury
08:13 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:46 Bedwyn to Newbury
09:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:23 Hereford to London Paddington
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
07:24 Exmouth to Paignton
07:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
07:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
Delayed
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 07:41:50 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[82] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[76] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[74] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[67] Return of the BRUTE?
[57] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[46] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Wheelchair user forced to drag himself up stairs at Milton Keynes station  (Read 1104 times)
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« on: June 20, 2022, 09:18:32 »

A pretty awful situation which could probably have been better handled;

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/19/wheelchair-user-dragged-himself-up-stairs-after-rail-staff-refused-to-help
Logged
the void
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 132


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2022, 10:38:24 »

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/wheelchair-user-stranded-platform-years-27268047#

The same story was 'reported' by the Mirror, although they failed to make any effort to establish who actually operates the station, repeatedly stating that 'Avanti West Coast station staff refused to help him.'

Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2022, 11:51:53 »

Train crew should have been informed, announcement made to stay on train & return back to MKC (Milton Keynes Central) on different platform or alternatively via a slow LNWR (London North Western Railway) train from Euston.

His suggestion would mean the station wiuld either be open to all, lifts working or closed to all if lifts not working…
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2022, 12:21:46 »

Train crew should have been informed, announcement made to stay on train & return back to MKC (Milton Keynes Central) on different platform or alternatively via a slow LNWR (London North Western Railway) train from Euston.

His suggestion would mean the station wiuld either be open to all, lifts working or closed to all if lifts not working…

Staying on the train wasn't an option as it appears that it was terminated at MKC due to signalling & other disruption.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2022, 12:54:38 »

Should never been allowed to terminate at a station without full avcess availability then
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2022, 14:08:46 »

Oh dear - here we go again! If I said there were more important relevent facts left out of those reports than included, would you be surprised?

Firstly, which is in the Guardian piece, he was travelling to Euston. So why did he get off at Milton Keynes, "for a connecting train"?

There were no trains south from MKC (Milton Keynes Central) after 15:22, until one at 18:05 (arr. only at 20:10) and then more after 20:00 - due to no power (a fire?). Three Avanti services terminated short at MKC, all at P5, at 16:39, 17:11, and 18:15. I understand that the lift on P5/6 has been out of action for some time, so anyone booking assistance for travel to MKC would have been put on trains using other platforms, and if need be changing on the way. Presumably he was on one of those three trains, and his leaving the train there was unplanned.

It also appears that P5/6 has no toilet, accessible or not, and any other alternative transport would have involved getting up to the overbridge in any case. If an alternative had been found by someone (given that the operational management were preoccupied with all those stopped trains), I guess a call to emergency services (ambulance or rescue) might have been justified, but I suspect the "plan" was just to wait and see what became possible.

PS: to be fair to the Mirror they did cover more of the details (being helped off the train, and the lift and toilets being U/S for some time).
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 01:28:07 by stuving » Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2022, 16:42:17 »

Oh dear - here we go again! If I said there were more important relevent facts left out of those reports than included, would you be surprised?

Firstly, which is in the Guardian piece, he was travelling to Euston. So why did he get off at Milton Keynes, "for a connecting train"?

There were no trains south from MKC (Milton Keynes Central) after 15:22, until one at 18:05 (arr. only at 20:10) and then more after 20:00 - due to no power (a fire?). Three Avanti services terminated short at MKC, all at P5, at 16:39, 17:11, and 18:15. I understand that the lift on P5/6 has been out of action for some time, so anyone booking assistance for travel to MKC would have been put on trains using other platforms, and if need be changing on the way. Presumably he was on one of those three trains, and his leaving the train there was unplanned.

It also appears that P5/6 has no toilet, accessible or not, and any other alternative transport would have involved getting up to the overbridge in any case. If an alternative had been found by someone (given that the operational management were preoccupied with all those stopped trains), I guess a call to emergency services (ambulance or rescue) might have been justified, but I suspect the "plan" was just to wait and see what became possible.

PS: to be fair to the Mail, they did cover more of the details (being helped off the train, and the lift and toilets being U/S for some time).


Speculation over other peripheral factors notwithstanding, the most important "relevant fact" (and it is a fact) is that a severely disabled young man, who has lost so much already, in the absence of any assistance, felt that he had no option than to drag himself up flights of stairs in pain and distress as no-one was prepared to help him - no sympathy, empathy or dignity - well done to the fellow passenger who carried his wheelchair, and the assistant manager who picked up his bags.

Hopefully none of us will ever be placed in the same position.

If the lifts have been out of action for as long as is suggested, surely some sort of contingency arrangement should be in place? God knows what would have happened to him in the event of a fire.

Health and Safety is important of course, but woe betide us when it trumps humanity.



Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2022, 19:38:13 »

Had I been present I would have volunteered to assist with the carrying of luggage or the wheelchair.
I would have been reluctant to assist the disabled man myself for fear of doing something wrong and being subject to legal action.
It is all too easy for a good lawyer with the benefit of hindsight, to argue that I should have done something different to what seemed best at the time. Even if the court found me blameless I cant afford the legal fees, nor the costs of attending a court perhaps distant from my home.
To take the extreme case, what if the person had fallen and died ? A terrible tragedy but nothing to do with ME if I simply happened to be in the vicinity. If however they fell and died whilst I was helping, then it could be argued that this was MY FAULT.

Depending upon the circumstances, I might have called the emergency services and stated that a disabled person was "trapped on the platform"
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1145


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2022, 20:48:35 »

A summary of my take on the matter:

This passenger should not have been de-trained on a platform with no lift that would enable him to get to an appropriate platform for a train or a bus replacement service for his onward journey. But the facts of the matter were that he was, so appropriate steps should have been taken to assist him. There appear to be two feasible options.

1 Put him on a train from that platform to take him to a station where it would be possible for him to go from one platform to another (if necessary). Presumably the three trains that terminated didn’t stay in the platform and actually went somewhere else, even if as ECS (Empty Coaching Stock). In my day a quick call to the Duty Station Manager and/or Control would have authorised that.

2 If for some reason he could not be moved off the platform by train, then he should have been moved physically. I do not believe that railway staff are trained to safely carry out such a move, so the emergency services should have been called. Of the three emergency services I would start by contacting the Fire Brigade who are well versed in moving people in stressful situations. So is the ambulance service, of course, but they are more likely to have vehicles tied up outside A&E waiting to unload

After the fuss had died down I would also want to know why that lift was out of action; Lift repairs should be priority work, especially as the railway had removed many barrow crossings so that option is now rarely available.
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4356


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2022, 07:53:19 »

There is more to this story than what has been stated in the Press, the station staff statements have not been released publicly

God knows what would have happened to him in the event of a fire.

Just on this note, in the event of a fire the lifts will automatically shut down at ground level just as they do in another building when the fire alarm operates.   The open areas on station platforms away from station buildings and canopies are deemed as "places of relative safety" in regards a fire etc.  Only modern build stations have escape routes off of the platform ends, these do not have MIP ramps, however the station evacuation plan covers howe to assist people. 
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2022, 12:25:37 »

A summary of my take on the matter:
Re: [0]
I did, initially, think good planning for something so foreseeable ought to have prevented it. And within that framework, the lack of lifts should lead to a flag being set to ensure that any unscheduled stop and evacuation would be done at another platform. But the layout at MKC (Milton Keynes Central) is too inflexible for that to be feasible. The fast lines only give access to three platforms: P4 is Up, P6 is Down, and P5 is reversible and the only one where a train can be reversed. Moving across to the slow lines needs to be done six miles north, and might not solve all the problems.
[1]
All three trains that terminated short in P5 went back in service, and the first two called at Rugby (22 minutes away). So the best bet would have been to stay on the train and go back there to wait - unless he was on the third train, 1M13 from Glasgow (the Mirror's version suggests he wasn't).

And note that for Rugby, Avanti say: "Various toilets on platforms 2 & 4 are out of use at Rugby station." Isn't that useful? I'd want to know what is working! Something accessible, one hopes.
[2]
Given that whatever is planned has a good chance of going wrong, some rescue method is needed, and in the absence of anything else Fire and Rescue looks like the only option. But ... to justify that you'd need to know what the alternatives were.

The Mirror story says he was told it would be five hours for ... presumably a train for Euston to call there (and five hours from when?). There is also mention of others getting a train after 40 minutes; that must be 1U34 which was sitting on P4 for nearly two hours. It left at 18:05, before the line was open again, and lost 90 minutes more but still got there hours before the next available train. So there's a hint there that he arrived on 1A46 from Manchester at 17:11. That went back north via Rugby at 18:01.

For any other passengers off those trains who waited for onward travel, some trains did make calls when the line opened after 20:00, all in P4. The first two ran through, and the first cal I can see isn't until 21:39. Presumably they were all full already, and a few passengers were squeezed onto each of them. It should have been possible to switch one of those to P5, though I suspect the lead time to getting this to happen might be quite long. Why it was possible for 1U34 to set off when it did, but no more trains left for over two hours, is not clear.

Oh course we are not told how he did get to London, only that his wife drove down "to be with her hubby". So did she pick him up? Was he put on one of the later trains on P4?
[2+]
Lifts do seem to be a problem area at the moment :

LNWR (London North Western Railway)'s live travel updates say "The lifts will be out of order between platform 5 and platform6 from now until further notice at Milton Keynes Central station." There are similar messages for other stations: Wembley Central, Bletchley, Northampton, and from Avanti for Preston and Manchester Piccadilly. Avanti give this as "Additional Information": "If you need to use a lift, please speak to a member of staff before boarding. Please also allow extra time for your journey so we can help re-arrange your travel plans. Sorry for the inconvenience."

So clearly something is needed to cover this kind of situation, but only the relevant operators know enough to decide what - and all options have major problems. Train station staff to help? Note he was, though paralysed, very fit and strong, didn't need a lot of help, and able to take responsibility for what was done. Most assisted passengers are not all of those things, but who judges what can be done? Note that this will mostly be required during disruption, and in this case the TOC (Train Operating Company) staff at MKC had hundreds, or potentially thousands, of dumped passengers to cope with.

Call Fire & Rescue, or other emergency services? It appears the initial problem was a lineside fire near Leighton Buzzard ATFS, which might have been occupying much of their resources. If they are busy, they'll ask if anyone's life is in danger, and in this case the answer is "no".

The more I think about it, the better "back to Rugby" (or "put off at Rugby not MKC" if possible) looks as a planned response to this situation. Even if there were even more fractious passengers milling about there. But, as I said, none of us knows enough to pick a solution - all we can do is say it's important to have one.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page