Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 10:55 25 Apr 2024
* Labour pledges to renationalise most rail services within five years
* Labour pledges to renationalise most rail services
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

No 'On This Day' events reported for 25th Apr

Train RunningCancelled
10:45 Falmouth Docks to Truro
Short Run
06:40 Penzance to Cardiff Central
Delayed
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 08:49 Plymouth to Cardiff Central
08:50 Penzance to Plymouth
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 25, 2024, 11:05:48 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[317] Labour to nationalise railways within five years of coming to ...
[88] Lack of rolling stock due to attacks on shipping in the Red Se...
[56] Theft from Severn Valley Railway
[32] Where have I been?
[31] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[26] Death of another bus station?
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
  Print  
Author Topic: Heatwave July 2022  (Read 5263 times)
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7170


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2022, 09:28:55 »

There have been some phenomenally high overnight temperatures which will have obliterated many local records, particularly in Wales and the west. A minimum of 26 degrees here in Bath by the looks (and feel) of it, and the Met Office site shows minimums of 27 along parts of the west Wales coast. Fortunately here in most of GWR (Great Western Railway) land, we are 'only' likely to reach maximums in the lower 30s today, but the eastern side of the country, and especially the east Midlands, is going to be cooking. I doubt whether anything will be moving there, whether it be by rail, road or foot.

The thermometer by the back door of my house said 21o even at 8 am, but that's rather misleading. I had fans set up to pull air into the upstairs rooms, but soon after 8 am they had raised the temperature in one bedroom to 27o.

The back garden is small and surrounded by panel fences, so it acts as a kind of frost hollow - air cooled by the ground (still around 21o at 9 am) and the roof tiles, themselves cooled at night by radiation, fills the "pool" to the top of the fences. Above that the air is a lot hotter at the moment.

There were some other low recorded temperatures last night, even down to 15o at Charlwood, after 36o yesterday - but that's a notorious frost hollow (among weather stations).
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40825



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2022, 09:47:04 »

from Politics Home

Quote
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has admitted it will take “decades” to make road and rail infrastructure able to deal with heatwaves.

On Monday, the UK (United Kingdom) recorded the hottest night on record, with temperatures failing to drop below 25C, according to the Met office. Temperatures on Tuesday are expected to reach highs of 42C, an all-time record for Britain, compared to an average of 21C for July.

With many train services cancelled or delayed on Monday after tracks buckled in the heat, and flights at Luton airport and at RAF (Royal Air Force)'s Brize Norton air base unable to land due to melting runways, Shapps conceded that the UK's transport network cannot cope with extreme heat. Further disruption is expected today.

He estimated it will take “decades, actually, to replace it all”.

”Ditto with Tarmac on the roads,” he told Sky News on Tuesday.

A stunning statement of what - to me at least - seems obvious.  Two questions to be asked:
a) Should we accept a handful of days each year when the railways cannot operate a normal timetable due to stunningly hot weather, just as we do with stunningly cold or wet weather?
b) Climate warming has been going on for years, though it's seemingly only become fashionable to take action on it and on making infrsastructure more robust in recent years.  What have Mr Shapps and his predecessors done to lessen the impact of changing weather on the transport network?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7798



View Profile
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2022, 10:07:30 »

from Politics Home

Quote
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has admitted it will take “decades” to make road and rail infrastructure able to deal with heatwaves.

On Monday, the UK (United Kingdom) recorded the hottest night on record, with temperatures failing to drop below 25C, according to the Met office. Temperatures on Tuesday are expected to reach highs of 42C, an all-time record for Britain, compared to an average of 21C for July.

With many train services cancelled or delayed on Monday after tracks buckled in the heat, and flights at Luton airport and at RAF (Royal Air Force)'s Brize Norton air base unable to land due to melting runways, Shapps conceded that the UK's transport network cannot cope with extreme heat. Further disruption is expected today.

He estimated it will take “decades, actually, to replace it all”.

”Ditto with Tarmac on the roads,” he told Sky News on Tuesday.

A stunning statement of what - to me at least - seems obvious.  Two questions to be asked:
a) Should we accept a handful of days each year when the railways cannot operate a normal timetable due to stunningly hot weather, just as we do with stunningly cold or wet weather?
b) Climate warming has been going on for years, though it's seemingly only become fashionable to take action on it and on making infrsastructure more robust in recent years.  What have Mr Shapps and his predecessors done to lessen the impact of changing weather on the transport network?

a) at least until we see the cost/benefit/practicality of the alternative and understand, in the immortal words of one of our esteemed fellow members........"Oooooooooooos gonna pay for it?"

....I assume, that somewhere amongst the colossal cost of HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)), someone has included weatherproofing it?
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4362


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2022, 11:05:14 »

from Politics Home

Quote
Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has admitted it will take “decades” to make road and rail infrastructure able to deal with heatwaves.

On Monday, the UK (United Kingdom) recorded the hottest night on record, with temperatures failing to drop below 25C, according to the Met office. Temperatures on Tuesday are expected to reach highs of 42C, an all-time record for Britain, compared to an average of 21C for July.

With many train services cancelled or delayed on Monday after tracks buckled in the heat, and flights at Luton airport and at RAF (Royal Air Force)'s Brize Norton air base unable to land due to melting runways, Shapps conceded that the UK's transport network cannot cope with extreme heat. Further disruption is expected today.

He estimated it will take “decades, actually, to replace it all”.

”Ditto with Tarmac on the roads,” he told Sky News on Tuesday.

A stunning statement of what - to me at least - seems obvious.  Two questions to be asked:
a) Should we accept a handful of days each year when the railways cannot operate a normal timetable due to stunningly hot weather, just as we do with stunningly cold or wet weather?
b) Climate warming has been going on for years, though it's seemingly only become fashionable to take action on it and on making infrsastructure more robust in recent years.  What have Mr Shapps and his predecessors done to lessen the impact of changing weather on the transport network?

a) at least until we see the cost/benefit/practicality of the alternative and understand, in the immortal words of one of our esteemed fellow members........"Oooooooooooos gonna pay for it?"

....I assume, that somewhere amongst the colossal cost of HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)), someone has included weatherproofing it?


On the last point about HS2 yes there will be extreme weather resilience (weatherproofing is about IP 54 or IP67 etc) being considered in the design, everything from the one in 50 / 100 year 1962 type snow conditions to flash flooding extreme temperatures both plus and minus.
Resilience of the infrastructure does not mean a full train service or indeed any train service will run in extreme conditions, the resilience measure will include protecting key assets from the impact of extreme weather conditions and recognising other assets will need attention (an example is a Signalling Location Case will be protected from flooding, but track circuits will be up to a certain degree) The resilience plan will include what needs to be done to protect assets, when it is safe and to what level a train service can run, key spare spares to be held as part of the seasonal preparedness plan.

This is also done for existing infrastructure that is why the ECML (East Coast Main Line) made the decision to suspended services the NR» (Network Rail - home page) Region, TOC (Train Operating Company) & FOC (Freight Operating Company) will have considered the risks of derailment, dewirement, trains becoming stranded with passengers onboard.

The question do we need to alter our infrastructure for a few days of over 30C air temperatures at the risk it will not handle the sub-zero C ground temperature during the winter
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12363


View Profile Email
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2022, 12:16:54 »

We still incur more sub-zero days than days in excess of 30 degrees....
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40825



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2022, 13:31:36 »

The question do we need to alter our infrastructure for a few days of over 30C air temperatures at the risk it will not handle the sub-zero C ground temperature during the winter.

On the assumption that it has a working range of "n" degrees, we should be considering whether that's -10 to 30, -5 to 35, or 0 to 40 (taking an example of "n" as 40).  And also considering during a period of changeover what the effect is - if we go from a -10 to 30 standard to a 0 to 40 standard, we have a considerable period when it only works 0 to 30.

"Do we need to alter it for over 30C?" ... the answer must be guided by "what happens in higher temperatures".   If it just means the line has to be shut, we probably don't need to alter it.   If it distorts and damages and cost millions to get running again, then perhaps we do need to alter it!
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12363


View Profile Email
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2022, 13:37:24 »

Also, we can't keep changing that range frankly - it'll take a decade or so to make changes across the entire rail network, by which time temperature means may have risen. We're already looking at 40 degrees - is that the highest we should plump for? What ranges do France & Spain use for example?
Logged
GBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1483


View Profile Email
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2022, 14:53:21 »

Cancellations to services between Penzance and St Erth
Due to lightning damaging the signalling system between Penzance and St Erth all lines are blocked.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed or revised. Disruption is expected until 10:00 19/07.

Now updated 10;15
Alterations to services between Penzance and St Erth
Due to lightning damaging the signalling system between Penzance and St Erth fewer trains are able to run on all lines.
Train services running to and from these stations may be delayed or revised. Disruption is expected until 12:00 19/07.

Alterations to services between Penzance and St Erth
Due to lightning damaging the signalling system between Penzance and St Erth fewer trains are able to run on all lines.
Train services running to and from these stations may be delayed or revised. Disruption is expected until 16:00 19/07.

Not quite as easily fixed as first forecast this morning.
Logged

Personal opinion only.  Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5410



View Profile
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2022, 16:08:04 »

Also, we can't keep changing that range frankly - it'll take a decade or so to make changes across the entire rail network, by which time temperature means may have risen. We're already looking at 40 degrees - is that the highest we should plump for? What ranges do France & Spain use for example?

In my view, all new railway rail infrastructure should be designed for an air temperature of 45 degrees, or a little more than the records set today. Whilst todays temperatures are exceptional, I suspect that they will become more common.
30 degrees is likely to be the new norm in Summer, with over 40 degrees reached if not every year, at least every few years.

And by "infrastructure" I mean not just the track and the OHLE, but also traction current substations, signaling equipment and the power supplies thereto, control rooms and signaling centers including the air conditioning.

Passenger safety also needs consideration. Major urban stations need air conditioned waiting areas, and smaller stations need  open air waiting areas that are shaded from direct sunlight.

Every station with a mains water supply should be provided with drinking water fountains, of a simple traditional design, nothing requiring electricity, smartphones, or apps.

Rolling stock likewise, all new and refurbished rolling stock should in my view be required to operate as normal at up to 40 degrees air temperature, and to cope with up to 50 degrees, though with reduced performance.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
a-driver
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 971


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2022, 16:22:37 »


In my view, all new railway rail infrastructure should be designed for an air temperature of 45 degrees, or a little more than the records set today. Whilst todays temperatures are exceptional, I suspect that they will become more common.
30 degrees is likely to be the new norm in Summer, with over 40 degrees reached if not every year, at least every few years.


Wouldn’t that then cause problems in the Winter when it comes to track?  A cold winter would then see the track contract so much it’ll rip itself apart. 
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12363


View Profile Email
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2022, 16:50:33 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News rolling page on the heat....

Quote
London Euston trains suspended over cable fire

All trains between London Euston and Milton Keynes have been suspended as emergency services deal with a fire near the track.

The blaze was caused when overhead electric cables came down in Harrow in north London, which Network Rail said was caused by the extreme temperatures.

All services to and from London Euston are suspended until further notice.

James Dean, Network Rail said -
"Please follow our 'do not travel' message today as journeys are being severely impacted. Once the emergency services give us the go-ahead, we will work as fast as we can to restore the railway lines. We're sorry to people impacted and we're working as fast as we can to get things back up and running."
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5410



View Profile
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2022, 16:57:36 »


In my view, all new railway rail infrastructure should be designed for an air temperature of 45 degrees, or a little more than the records set today. Whilst todays temperatures are exceptional, I suspect that they will become more common.
30 degrees is likely to be the new norm in Summer, with over 40 degrees reached if not every year, at least every few years.


Wouldn’t that then cause problems in the Winter when it comes to track?  A cold winter would then see the track contract so much it’ll rip itself apart. 

How do they cope overseas ? Many places have higher Summer temperatures AND lower winter temperatures than does the UK (United Kingdom). They have railways.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12363


View Profile Email
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2022, 17:04:07 »

How do they cope overseas ? Many places have higher Summer temperatures AND lower winter temperatures than does the UK (United Kingdom). They have railways.

Would you like to name half a dozen?
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12363


View Profile Email
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2022, 17:12:07 »

From SWT (South West Trains) on twitter yesterday

Quote
One of the ways the heat can affect our railway. A kink in the tracks was spotted near #Vauxhall earlier today. Our team are working to fix this, and thankfully trains can be re-routed to avoid the affected section, so delays should be minor.

Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5410



View Profile
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2022, 17:18:11 »

How do they cope overseas ? Many places have higher Summer temperatures AND lower winter temperatures than does the UK (United Kingdom). They have railways.

Would you like to name half a dozen?

France
Ukraine
Central states of the USA.
Russia.
And many other others, generally places well inland and therefore distant from the moderating effect of oceans.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page