Hydrogen trains enter service in Germany

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

Germany has introduced its first hydrogen powered passenger rail services, according to CNN and others.

The world's first hydrogen-powered passenger trains are here
Julia Buckley, CNN • Updated 24th August 2022



(CNN) — The future of environmentally friendly travel might just be here -- and it's Germany that's leading the charge, with the first ever rail line to be entirely run on hydrogen-powered trains, starting from Wednesday.
Fourteen hydrogen trains powered by fuel cell propulsion will exclusively run on the route in Bremervörde, Lower Saxony. The 93 million euro ($92.3 million) deal has been struck by state subsidiary Landesnahverkehrsgesellschaft Niedersachsen (LVNG), the owners of the railway, and Alstom, builders of the Coradia iLint trains. The Elbe-Weser Railways and Transport Company (EVB), which will operate the trains, and gas and engineering company Linde, are also part of the project.
The trains, five of which which debut Wednesday, will gradually replace the 15 diesel trains that currently run on the route, with all 14 running exclusively by the end of the year. Just 1 kilo of hydrogen fuel can do the same as around 4.5 kilos of diesel.

(Continues at source)

This looks like good news, and might even be good news. Landesnahverkehrsgesellschaft might not be a name on everyone's lips just yet, but this is a big development, with the promise of more to come across commuter networks. From the point of view of other countries, it is an ideal way to watch someone else test the theories at their expense and risk, rather than your own, to see how well the whole thing works from production of hydrogen to operations, and to evaluate the costs when compared to other options like OHLE or batteries. The latter of those seems to be losing ground in the race to power trains.

The production of the hydrogen is probably the elephant in the room. Germany is a long way from being green in energy, and is getting further away by the day. It may yet keep its nuclear power stations open longer than originally envisaged, but is using more coal to compensate for the loss of the gas imports from Russia. The article doesn't cover this aspect, but if a mountainside is covered with solar panels or wind turbines to produce hydrogen for the trains while more lignite is dug for the grid, it ceases to be an overall contributor to a solution to the carbon problem. But it will remove emissions from where it runs, even if the practical outcome is transferring them to somewhere else.

[stuving]

Cuxhaven, at the end of this route, is another of those places pitching to become an "hydrogen hub":

Hydrogen concept of the city of Cuxhaven

The coastal region of Cuxhaven offers ideal conditions for the development of the hydrogen economy as the mainstay of the energy revolution. The enormous number and density of wind turbines means great potential for the production of "green hydrogen" (power to gas; power to X). By converting temporary energy surpluses into transportable hydrogen, renewable energies can also be used independently of the urban infrastructure - without connection to the power grid.

Germany as a whole has a large and inherently variable wind power source, the fluctuations of which already dictate generation patterns across Europe, and Cuxhaven is in the middle of prime wind territory - onshore, offshore, and on Heligoland. So the idea of banking electricity when it's surplus to usability in the form of hydrogen might even work there, if it can anywhere. Provided someone stumps up for all those electrolysers, of course.

But basically it's just another step in a long development and proving process for hydrogen trains, and an encouraging one on the whole.

[stuving]

But basically it's just another step in a long development and proving process for hydrogen trains, and an encouraging one on the whole.

...on the other hand, Baden-Württemberg have just decided not to go down the hydrogen route at all - from International Rail Journal

Baden-Württemberg rejects hydrogen as diesel alternative 
A study examined ways to replace diesel traction on the state network.

Baden-Württemberg will use battery traction over hydrogen on non-electrified lines.
Photo Credit: Baden-Württemberg

THE German state of Baden-Württemberg has published a study into possible alternatives to diesel traction on its rail network, and says it will no longer consider hydrogen traction.

The study, conducted by a consortium including Transport Technology Consult Karlsruhe (TTK) and Komobile, examined 16 non-electrified routes, and compared electrification with the introduction of battery or hydrogen traction...

The ministry says that following the analysis, “operation with hydrogen hybrid trains will not be considered further in the near future due to various operational and economic reasons.” It says that in a direct comparison, hydrogen technology could not match battery traction or electrification on any of the routes considered by the study.

They are proposing a mix of electrification and battery EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) instead.

[broadgage]

Hydrogen power undoubtedly works to an extent, but is inherently expensive, complicated, and somewhat dangerous.
OTOH^▸ (On The Other Hand), electric trains are an established technology, and batteries are still improving.

The future is in my view electrification wherever practical, with battery power being used when restricted clearances or extreme conditions make OHLE impractical.

Producing hydrogen is easy, but storage is expensive, as is compressing or liquefying the gas.

[TonyK]

Hydrogen power undoubtedly works to an extent, but is inherently expensive, complicated, and somewhat dangerous.
OTOH^▸ (On The Other Hand), electric trains are an established technology, and batteries are still improving.

The future is in my view electrification wherever practical, with battery power being used when restricted clearances or extreme conditions make OHLE impractical.

Producing hydrogen is easy, but storage is expensive, as is compressing or liquefying the gas.

Nail hit squarely on the head. NASA's travails with its Artemis spacecraft show that even rocket scientists struggle with hydrogen. I have seen something in one of the tech websites lately about using salts to store hydrogen. The article says the salts yield the hydrogen easily, and it can be effectively replaced for reuse. Whether this is serious or just the desperate withdrawal symptoms of the subsidy junkie is a matter beyond my limited scientific competence. If it is serious, it sounds so basic that one might think it had cropped up as an idea before, but it could be bad news for bakers if sodium bicarbonate suddenly gets popular as a fuel for trains. There remains the question of how the hydrogen is made and transported for use, of course.

[eightonedee]

There's a rather rambling piece on hydrogen storage system developments, that looks superficially to be about rail transport but actually looks at the wider picture on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News website, Business section - see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62619313

It is difficult to work out from this how close we might be to a breakthrough in low pressure storage, but at least it looks like quite a few groups are working on it.

[Bmblbzzz]

Over the sea in Canada, and 75 years ago, they were already predicting the demise of the newly adopted diesel locomotives – but not electrification, let alone hydrogen...
https://youtu.be/6_RE2Ku4eCU?t=909

 

[eightonedee]

I have just caught this You Tube video from Sabine Hossenfelder, whose channel I have recently discovered. She is a German scientist with a mission to explain science clearly to those of us with arts or humanities backgrounds and others.  As you will see, she does not share some of her compatriots' enthusiasm for hydrogen, indeed on close analysis there seems little to gain from most methods of hydrogen fuel production in terms of carbon reduction

See - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE.

[TonyK]

I have just caught this You Tube video from Sabine Hossenfelder, whose channel I have recently discovered. She is a German scientist with a mission to explain science clearly to those of us with arts or humanities backgrounds and others.  As you will see, she does not share some of her compatriots' enthusiasm for hydrogen, indeed on close analysis there seems little to gain from most methods of hydrogen fuel production in terms of carbon reduction

See - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE.

That's what happens when you ask a scientist, with their analytical approaches, laws of physics and other inconvenient stuff.

Interesting. It does rather confirm the theory that hydrogen is a clever but expensive way of making a lot of electricity into a lot less electricity.

[paul7575]

That's what happens when you ask a scientist, with their analytical approaches, laws of physics and other inconvenient stuff.

Interesting. It does rather confirm the theory that hydrogen is a clever but expensive way of making a lot of electricity into a lot less electricity.

We should probably just think of it as being like an amplifier but connected backwards… 

Paul