Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 13:55 28 Nov 2022
- Odell Beckham Jr: Wide receiver removed from plane before take-off at Miami Airport
- North of England faces rail chaos, warns business lobby
- When are the train strikes and what routes are affected?
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 30/03/23 - Railfuture Annual, Leeds

On this day
28th Nov (1958)
Closure of Abbotsbury branch (*)

Train RunningShort Run
09:10 Penzance to London Paddington
13:50 London Paddington to Great Malvern
Delayed
11:50 London Paddington to Hereford
11:55 Great Malvern to London Paddington
13:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
November 28, 2022, 02:12:32 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[130] Normal crosses, Maltese Crosses and Asterisks on tickets. And...
[98] Not all cancellations count....
[82] Privately owned funicular railway.
[63] Reopening Cullompton and Wellington stations (merged topic)
[56] Growing Rail Revenue
[53] ORR - Estimates of station usage 2021/2
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bristol - Manchester services  (Read 1029 times)
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 488


View Profile
« on: August 30, 2022, 09:03:22 am »

(Post hauled out of this quiz by the scruff of the neck and put here)

On number 3, a quiz thread probably isn't the place to make this point. We should bear in mind that post-covid the first weekday through train Bristol to Manchester is at 14:00 - while several of the morning connections aren't good at all.

The first of the day involves an hour's wait at Birmingham, but still, a peak single fare of £105* standard or £231 first - or a choice of 2 changes at Birmingham and Crewe for a marginally earlier arrival time that's still after 10am (and the same fare). The next is routed via the Welsh borders. This represents a huge failure of the rail system to serve what should be a core flow. It's embarrassing.

Mark

*Edited as the National Rail site glitches and sometimes feeds the visitor the first class fare as standard.

Edit to add link back to original thread - grahame
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 11:01:21 am by grahame » Logged
froome
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 775


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2022, 09:12:59 am »

When I travel from Bath to Manchester these days, which I do occasionally, I usually travel via Newport, as the fares tend to be much less going that way, which is ridiculous when you think about it.

In fact, I have often combined a journey to Manchester with a journey into north Wales, and bought an all Wales rover ticket, which covers the Newport to Manchester journey and allows me flexibility to use other services as well while in Wales.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37273



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2022, 09:27:53 am »

(Post hauled out of the quiz by the scruff of the neck and put here)

On number 3, a quiz thread probably isn't the place to make this point. We should bear in mind that post-covid the first weekday through train Bristol to Manchester is at 14:00 - while several of the morning connections aren't good at all.

The first of the day involves an hour's wait at Birmingham, but still, a peak single fare of £105* standard or £231 first - or a choice of 2 changes at Birmingham and Crewe for a marginally earlier arrival time that's still after 10am (and the same fare). The next is routed via the Welsh borders. This represents a huge failure of the rail system to serve what should be a core flow. It's embarrassing.

Mark

*Edited as the National Rail site glitches and sometimes feeds the visitor the first class fare as standard.


Thank for reposting that very serious issue here - so many times a major matter is raised initially in a light hearted manner.

Looking back a handful of years, I was a relatively frequent traveller from Melksham to Manchester and I tried (and usually succeeded) to use public transport for the journey - simply out of a desire to not have to drive all the way and then have a car to look after in an area where there was no need for one and it would be more of a burden than a blessing.   But - oh dear - the journey had its good bits and bad bits.

At times, travel via Newport was the financial choice (but what an awful change IMHO (in my humble opinion) there, and crowded trains on The Marches line).  Bristol (or Cheltenham Spa) to Manchester tended to work well.  On the way back, connections at Bristol to get me home were "icky" - I can remember several times running through the subway at Temple Meads off a late running train from Manchester to see the tail lights of the "via Westbury" service passing the end of the platform, and having to chose between a long wait for the late bus in Bath, taking a taxi, or calling in a lift.

Changing at New Street - sorry - I find distasteful.  Crowded platforms in the dungeon under the brave new centre.  Not knowing what platform the train's going to be on - changes including late ones, having to go through multiple barriers, etc; frankly glad I don't have to make that journey any longer.

Failure to provide affordable though services from the South West to the North West at times of day that people need to travel is - well - words are failing me for once.  If I didn't know otherwise, it could be very much part of a government policy to kill rail use on the corridor ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6157


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2022, 08:38:00 pm »

It's crazy. The schedule for the Manchester trains worked well for all sorts of reasons, not least of which is that a round trip fitted a driver's day. Like all CrossCountry services, the majority of passengers would not travel the full length of the journey, and it was a good Bristol - Birmingham service too.
Logged

Now, please!
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9469


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2022, 08:46:27 pm »

Yes, if I was a pessimist I would say that the CrossCountry service is being specified to test the waters of what closures and service reductions can be gotten away with in the future.  I’m not a pessimist, but it’s still quite tempting to be one!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37273



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2022, 09:07:26 pm »

Yes, if I was a pessimist I would say that the CrossCountry service is being specified to test the waters of what closures and service reductions can be gotten away with in the future.  I’m not a pessimist, but it’s still quite tempting to be one!

Perhaps it doesn't go to London where all the important people want to go, and it doesn't provide the main train service to many places so you won't get any great strong local opposition if you reduce it ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 11285


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2022, 08:07:17 am »

Perhaps its a general reduction to save money? cf the Southern Reduction thread. Seems ro be across the board?
Logged
froome
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 775


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2022, 08:33:29 am »


At times, travel via Newport was the financial choice (but what an awful change IMHO (in my humble opinion) there, and crowded trains on The Marches line).  Bristol (or Cheltenham Spa) to Manchester tended to work well.  On the way back, connections at Bristol to get me home were "icky" - I can remember several times running through the subway at Temple Meads off a late running train from Manchester to see the tail lights of the "via Westbury" service passing the end of the platform, and having to chose between a long wait for the late bus in Bath, taking a taxi, or calling in a lift.

Changing at New Street - sorry - I find distasteful.  Crowded platforms in the dungeon under the brave new centre.  Not knowing what platform the train's going to be on - changes including late ones, having to go through multiple barriers, etc; frankly glad I don't have to make that journey any longer.


Quite agree. Connections at Newport have always been very tight. If the train is close to being on time, you will see lots of people pour onto the platform from the Portsmouth train and dash for the stairs or lift to catch the connecting service on the Marches line. But on the many occasions when it is a few minutes late, we have watched our connecting train moving off as our train has been arriving. And the Marches trains are certainly crowded out of Newport - they desperately need longer trains on the first leg as far as Abergavenny or Hereford at least.

Agree on New Street as well. Trying to avoid having to wait on the platforms there is one of the reasons why I usually travel via Newport.
Logged
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 280


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2022, 04:25:44 pm »

What routes are technically permitted between Bristol and Manchester? Looking at the timetable, this ought to work as a way of avoiding changing at Birmingham New Street, taking less than 15 minutes longer:

1035 Bristol Temple Meads
1318 Sheffield

1343 Sheffield
1437 Manchester Piccadilly
Logged

TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6157


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2022, 05:04:26 pm »

Yes, if I was a pessimist I would say that the CrossCountry service is being specified to test the waters of what closures and service reductions can be gotten away with in the future.  I’m not a pessimist, but it’s still quite tempting to be one!

Pessimist noun (c)

 - 1) An optimist with experience
Logged

Now, please!
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37273



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2022, 05:32:58 pm »

What routes are technically permitted between Bristol and Manchester?

Interestingly - I think the answer is "If you want to go via Sheffield, book from Westbury".  Simples. Though I don't know what it does to the price.

I recall doing a week of work split between 3 days in Manchester and 2 days in Leicester, and found that tickets from Melksham would have been 3 singles, as a Melksham to Manchester return is not valid via Sheffield.   However, a ticket from Westbury is and as it was Manchester first that week, I could use the outbound in a day and then break the journey on my period return on the way back. Had it been two days in Leicester followed by 3 days in Manchester, I suspect that the fare would have been higher.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page