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 30/03/23 - Railfuture Annual, Leeds

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Author Topic: Is Paddington necessary?  (Read 1458 times)
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2022, 01:09:09 pm »

Daft idea IMHO (in my humble opinion)

Is that in reaction to ...
* Divert trains into "London Central" (a.k.a. Kings Cross / St. Pancras / Euston)
or
* Terminate at Reading and have folks use Crossrail or local trains in from there
or something else
* Terminate at Old Oak

<advocate mode=devil>With Euston services reduced from 4 to 1 an hour to Manchester and to 1 an hour to Birmingham, there is capacity there for:
* an hourly train to Swindon, divide for Taunton via Bristol and for Swansea
* a second hourly train to Swindon, divide for Cheltenham Spa and Weymouth
* an hourly train to Exeter, divide for Paignton and Penzance
* an hourly train to Reading, divide for Hereford via Oxford and for Exeter via Salisbury</advocate>

We may be at a real turning point for railways is everyone concerned doesn't get their reliability and other issues sorted out!


I agree that a radical rethink is necessary. I've had two trips out in the last fortnight - a day out in London, and a day out in Oxford. Both trips were on Wednesdays.

The least busy trains were the BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) IETs (Intercity Express Train); I could almost convince myself that they got emptier as we neared London. Places like Bath and Oxford, on the other hand, were heaving; there can be no doubt that the planned improvements at Oxford are vital.

I had forgotten just how uncomfortable the IETs are - I was in some pain when I arrived in London, and even more on the return leg to Bristol. The ride characteristics of these units are also worse than I remember. Perhaps I've just got used to the better comfort levels on the 166's that I usually catch?

The Elizabeth line was astonishing. I've been following the progress of building it on YouTube over the years, but that had not prepared me for the scale of it (I felt like a half-sized scale model of a human). The speed with which it got us from Tottenham Court Road to Paddington was disorientating. I can see that a lot of people may well transfer to the Elizabeth line at Old Oak, assuming the interchange is as easy as it should be. That would certainly diminish Paddington's role.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2022, 04:29:57 pm »


The least busy trains were the BRI» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) IETs (Intercity Express Train); I could almost convince myself that they got emptier as we neared London. Places like Bath and Oxford, on the other hand, were heaving; there can be no doubt that the planned improvements at Oxford are vital.

This matches my recent anecdotal experience on off-peak weekdays and weekend over this summer. Traveling in near empty carriages at the ends of Bristol 9/10 IETs and by contrast in heaving 5 carriage Oxford (& North Cots beyond) trains. Especially the latter on Sunday when these serve Radley as well so there is no local alternative.
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2022, 08:28:25 pm »

The Elizabeth line was astonishing. I've been following the progress of building it on YouTube over the years, but that had not prepared me for the scale of it (I felt like a half-sized scale model of a human). The speed with which it got us from Tottenham Court Road to Paddington was disorientating. I can see that a lot of people may well transfer to the Elizabeth line at Old Oak, assuming the interchange is as easy as it should be. That would certainly diminish Paddington's role.

It depends where you want to go.  If it is to South Kensington  or anywhere of the District line side of the circle the Elizabeth line is not too helpful. 
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2022, 09:10:14 pm »

If you speculate forward ... and take note of the original plan for trains to carry on though Paddington onto the Met:

a) Start the broken circle from Old Oak - then Royal Oak, Paddington, Edward Road, Baker Street, etc
b) Change at Old Oak for Crossrail
c) Change at Ealing Broadway for Central line and District line which sorts out Earls Court, South Ken, Victoria and MPland
d) Change at Paddington still for Charing Cross, Waterloo, and The Elephant - on to Lewisham?

I am reminded of how it was when I was in college and commuted into Holborn Viaduct, with most traffic leaving the train at Blackfriars.   And of Hamburg Altona, where the long distance trains have already dumped at Hauptbahnhof.

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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2022, 07:31:49 am »

If you speculate forward ... and take note of the original plan for trains to carry on though Paddington onto the Met:

a) Start the broken circle from Old Oak - then Royal Oak, Paddington, Edward Road, Baker Street, etc
b) Change at Old Oak for Crossrail
c) Change at Ealing Broadway for Central line and District line which sorts out Earls Court, South Ken, Victoria and MPland
d) Change at Paddington still for Charing Cross, Waterloo, and The Elephant - on to Lewisham?

I am reminded of how it was when I was in college and commuted into Holborn Viaduct, with most traffic leaving the train at Blackfriars.   And of Hamburg Altona, where the long distance trains have already dumped at Hauptbahnhof.



a. - Not sure that would provide much in the way of additional useful connectivity
c. - Build a new Central Line station at OOC (Old Oak Common (depot)) at the Western end of the site and stations on both the West and North London Lines would provide connections to most of these and more.
d. - The quickest way to Lewisham would still remain Elzabeth Line to Farringdon, Thamelink to London Bridge and then Lewisham

One thing is certain the pandemic has changed all previous planning of passenger journeys, however over the next year or 2 the new pattern will be clearer, and OOC HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) station will provide greater journey connectivity than Stratford (East London) 
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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2022, 09:39:07 am »

I find myself wondering if we're going to see asymetric patterns when Old Oak opens.    Passengers going IN to London will change at Old Oak because it should be quick easy.   Passengers coming OUT from London will change at Paddington in the hope of getting a seat on the train, having staff around if something goes wrong, and (initially at least) lots of places to grab a bite to eat.
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2022, 10:20:51 am »

I find myself wondering if we're going to see asymetric patterns when Old Oak opens.    Passengers going IN to London will change at Old Oak because it should be quick easy.   Passengers coming OUT from London will change at Paddington in the hope of getting a seat on the train, having staff around if something goes wrong, and (initially at least) lots of places to grab a bite to eat.

The HSS (High Speed Services) dwell times at OOC (Old Oak Common (depot)) will be short 2 may be 3 mins, a bit like Reading HSS

There will be staff at OOC to around the same level as you encounter at Reading.

Food outlets I don't think there will be a shortage, indeed the OOC area could develop into something like Stratford especially around the Grand Union Canal, it's just the Elzabeth Line TCD that prevents a big shopping centre as part of the station complex but plenty of opportunity North of the Canal
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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2022, 11:20:30 am »


Is Paddington necessary?....................just ask my Granddaughter !



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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2022, 01:01:42 pm »

If this is such a fantastic idea then presumably somebody is calling for something similar at Stratford?

If they are not then it might give some insight into what other people would be thinking about it...
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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2022, 01:05:43 pm »

Is Paddington necessary?....................just ask my Granddaughter !



... and Finn.
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« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2022, 09:49:15 pm »

Should be renamed PaddFinnton Station....
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« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2022, 03:49:59 pm »

Should be renamed PaddFinnton Station....
And in good old-fashioned GWR (Great Western Railway) tradition, OOC (Old Oak Common (depot)) could be renamed Paddington Road...
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« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2022, 06:27:53 pm »

Should be renamed PaddFinnton Station....
And in good old-fashioned GWR (Great Western Railway) tradition, OOC (Old Oak Common (depot)) could be renamed Paddington Road...

Bishops Road I think would be more apt,
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