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Author Topic: New Hitachi Tri-mode to be launched in Italy  (Read 1236 times)
Surrey 455
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« on: September 25, 2022, 09:54:44 am »

From Euronews

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On Wednesday, Hitachi Rail and Italy’s train operator Trenitalia unveiled its hybrid train, the “Blues Train” at the InnoTrans transport fair in Berlin.

The train will be the first set in a new hybrid fleet in passenger service in Europe once it is up and running this year.

It is the first train to have a so-called “tri-mode” and Hitachi says it can cut emissions by more than 50 per cent.

“Tri-mode” means the train can switch between battery, electric or diesel and can function on electrified and non-electrified lines so that it can still operate in areas that may not have the right infrastructure yet for electric trains.

Being a new train, let's hope it has none of the problems that the UK (United Kingdom)'s 769 train has.
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stuving
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2022, 12:18:38 pm »

Similarly - well, up to a point, anyway - construction has just started on Brittany Ferries' next LNG-hybrid ferry. This is a full hybrid, able to run full propulsion power and everything else off its battery. Of course the continued bureaucratic delays in the electrification of the channel mean it only runs off an external supply when in port, but still - it's the same general principle, coming in step by step ...

From Travel Weekly:
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Brittany Ferries to operate ‘world’s largest’ hybrid ship
By Phil Davies | June 21, 2022, 11:12

Brittany Ferries claims it will be operating the world’s largest hybrid ship from 2024.

The newly-named ferry Saint-Malo, powered by liquified natural gas (LNG), is due to enter service between Portsmouth and St Malo.

The vessel’s batteries, with a capacity of 11.5 MWh, will be about double that typically used for hybrid propulsion in marine vessels, the company said.

Multiple systems will improve efficiency further, allowing real-time energy optimisation while sailing.

This, combined with hybrid power and shoreside plug-in, has the potential to cut up to 15% of greenhouse gas emissions compared with diesel propulsion, according to engine and battery supplier Wartsila...

Wartsila chief executive Hakan Agnevall added: “The extensive battery size will allow the vessels to operate with full power, using both propellors and all thrusters to manoeuvre emissions-free in and out of ports, even in bad weather.

“The built-in shore power solution will charge the batteries while berthed...”

Note that the ship is actually designed and built for Stena RoRo, and will be leased to BF (Brake First (carriage)).
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TonyK
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2022, 12:26:09 pm »

Of course the continued bureaucratic delays in the electrification of the channel...

The salt water gets into the OHLE?
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GBM
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2022, 02:06:09 pm »

Of course the continued bureaucratic delays in the electrification of the channel...

The salt water gets into the OHLE?
Maybe they build a tunnel instead.  Oh wait...........
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eightonedee
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2022, 05:05:37 pm »

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Being a new train, let's hope it has none of the problems that the UK (United Kingdom)'s 769 train has.

What would Hitachi offer for 19 class 769s, very little used, by way of a part-exchange deal?
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Electric train
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2022, 07:11:02 am »

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Being a new train, let's hope it has none of the problems that the UK (United Kingdom)'s 769 train has.

What would Hitachi offer for 19 class 769s, very little used, by way of a part-exchange deal?

The problem with 769's is the use of the old traction motors (DC (Direct Current)) and old (modified) traction control package where as the new Hitachi trains in Italy will make use of modern polyphase (AC) traction motors with variable frequency drive.

The Hitachi units I suspect are on offer to the UK market, however we in the UK (or at least the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)) seem content in trying to make old stuff do something it was not designed to do.  Other manufactures like Siemens etc will have similar offerings to Hitachi 
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TonyK
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2022, 04:54:15 pm »


The problem with 769's is the use of the old traction motors (DC (Direct Current)) and old (modified) traction control package where as the new Hitachi trains in Italy will make use of modern polyphase (AC) traction motors with variable frequency drive.

The Hitachi units I suspect are on offer to the UK (United Kingdom) market, however we in the UK (or at least the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)) seem content in trying to make old stuff do something it was not designed to do.  Other manufactures like Siemens etc will have similar offerings to Hitachi 

That will always be the problem until something radical, like changing all 750V DC for 25KV AC, happens. The 769 is in essence, IIUC, a 30-year-old bi-mode based on 80-year-old technology with a diesel engine and alternator to provide power when there is neither third rail nor OHLE. It's a new patch on an old coat, designed to run as efficiently as the least efficient part will allow. I'm surprised there isn't also a battery carriage and a hydrogen tank to make it truly future proof, and earn a broadgage indulgence. It's better than no train, but come on - this is the 21st century, where diesel is a Bad Thing. Put some wires up.
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2022, 05:00:00 pm »

... diesel is a Bad Thing. Put some wires up.
If this sounds like a voice of wisdom from the past now, how much more so when we still haven't listened 50 years on.
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2022, 05:52:27 pm »


The problem with 769's is the use of the old traction motors (DC (Direct Current)) and old (modified) traction control package where as the new Hitachi trains in Italy will make use of modern polyphase (AC) traction motors with variable frequency drive.

The Hitachi units I suspect are on offer to the UK (United Kingdom) market, however we in the UK (or at least the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)) seem content in trying to make old stuff do something it was not designed to do.  Other manufactures like Siemens etc will have similar offerings to Hitachi 

That will always be the problem until something radical, like changing all 750V DC for 25KV AC, happens. The 769 is in essence, IIUC, a 30-year-old bi-mode based on 80-year-old technology with a diesel engine and alternator to provide power when there is neither third rail nor OHLE. It's a new patch on an old coat, designed to run as efficiently as the least efficient part will allow. I'm surprised there isn't also a battery carriage and a hydrogen tank to make it truly future proof, and earn a broadgage indulgence. It's better than no train, but come on - this is the 21st century, where diesel is a Bad Thing. Put some wires up.

IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly), the story with the 769s was that in theory they hit a 'sweet spot' of being reasonably modern, crashworthy etc, but not so modern to be software-driven, they had  couple of carriages with space underneath and a 750v bus running along them, so if you added a diesel genset that could mimic a third-rail power supply then lo and behold you could have a 25kv/diesel hybrid at bargain price and very quickly. 

It was probably always going to be a gamble, but they had to get the new kit to fit, work and not interfere with signalling etc. It also seems that no-one talked with the guys who produced the original electrical gubbins, who might have told them of a few pitfalls and that getting two gensets to work in parallel is actually quite tricky. It was perhaps even more optimistic to be thinking that some clever switchgear could leave the shoegear intact turning them into tri-modes. 

The problem with these projects is that at what point do you say "sod it", pay off Porterbrook and start chatting to Stadler about what they might be able to deliver in a couple of years after the more pessimistic have received their orders.
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