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Author Topic: Normal crosses, Maltese Crosses and Asterisks on tickets. And the letter D  (Read 762 times)
grahame
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« on: November 16, 2022, 10:08:08 am »

A new one on me this morning. I don't think I've seen the normal (biblical) cross on a ticket before.



So -

Normal Cross - does that mean valid cross London via Elizabeth Line by any chance?

Maltese Cross - includes cross London via Underground

Asterisk - Used to indicate the end of a place name where there is a longer name elsewhere that starts in the same way - for example Par* on the ticket to avoid it being confused with Parbold.

D - I don't know - can someone help with that?

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Fourbee
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2022, 11:42:16 am »

D = Discounted (Senior Railcard used in this case). A child ticket has C where the D is.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2022, 11:48:24 am »

Ah, phew, thanks for that Fourbee!

(( Edit - FOI (Freedom of Information) reference cause issues with link originally - GrahamE ))

A full explanation of the meaning of a + is  here https://foi.tfl.gov.uk/FOI-1793-2122/Ticketing%20and%20Revenue%20Book%208%20Section%206.pdf

My googlings suggest that † has no 'biblical' connection, incidentally - it's a dagger (or obelus, if you want to be fancy).

N.B. I have tried several ways to get SimpleMachines to accept the uri, but it won't. But it works if you cut and paste it to another window!



« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 02:55:12 pm by grahame » Logged

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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2022, 01:59:33 pm »

D = Discounted (Senior Railcard used in this case). A child ticket has C where the D is.

Or CD (Capital Delivery) for Child & Discounted (e.g. a Network Railcard ticket)!
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grahame
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2022, 02:58:59 pm »

N.B. I have tried several ways to get SimpleMachines to accept the uri, but it won't. But it works if you cut and paste it to another window!


Yeah ... don't blame Simple Machines ... blame my rather rough coding for expanding acronyms - the "FOI (Freedom of Information)" sequence within the URL caused an issue ... as the expand happens only once I've edited you post and it now mentions FOI earlier - so that one is expanded and not the one in the URL.  Simples ;-)
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paul7575
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 pm »

IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the ‘Maltese cross’ as it used to be referred to and printed in paper fares manuals is this:
and I think it also appeared on the old Edmondson type card tickets, it has a quite specific shape, and isn’t normally printed on credit card sized tickets.  Was it ever?

It seems typical of the railway to refer to something by an old name that’s never actually printed.

What you normally used to see was more like an ordinary plus symbol, or the dagger as already mentioned?



« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 04:52:36 pm by paul7575 » Logged
stuving
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2022, 06:09:58 pm »

IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) the ‘Maltese cross’ as it used to be referred to and printed in paper fares manuals is this:
and I think it also appeared on the old Edmondson type card tickets, it has a quite specific shape, and isn’t normally printed on credit card sized tickets.  Was it ever?

Certainly was - the latest one I've got to hand was 2017, and over on the left followed by "Valid via any permitted route".
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Ralph Ayres
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2022, 11:55:40 pm »

Sigh. Printers unable to deliver a Maltese cross and consequent misunderstandings about crossing London on the Tube were one of the banes of my life pre-retirement!

A Maltese cross was deliberately chosen for ticket print as it was quite distinctive and was successfully printed on credit card size tickets for many years, but some ticket system purchasers later chose to buy kit that could only manage a poor alternative such as a dagger or a plus sign, occasionally something barely distinguishable from an exclamation mark.  They all mean the same (apart from meaning "poorly specified contract" that is) rather than any one meaning anything special for the Elizabeth line, on which broadly the Paddington-Stratford/Abbey Wood bit is treated as part of the Underground and the rest is normal National Rail.
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paul7575
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2022, 09:47:08 am »

Sigh. Printers unable to deliver a Maltese cross and consequent misunderstandings about crossing London on the Tube were one of the banes of my life pre-retirement!

A Maltese cross was deliberately chosen for ticket print as it was quite distinctive and was successfully printed on credit card size tickets for many years, but some ticket system purchasers later chose to buy kit that could only manage a poor alternative such as a dagger or a plus sign, occasionally something barely distinguishable from an exclamation mark.  They all mean the same (apart from meaning "poorly specified contract" that is) rather than any one meaning anything special for the Elizabeth line, on which broadly the Paddington-Stratford/Abbey Wood bit is treated as part of the Underground and the rest is normal National Rail.

Perhaps SWT (South West Trains)’s S&B ticket vending machines were an early example of those unable to print the right symbol, and that’s what I was remembering? 

Paul
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grahame
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2022, 04:56:07 pm »

And another symbol - looks like a little apple?

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ChrisB
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2022, 05:33:42 pm »

Clipping hole for a day return, to prevent re-use on same day - but no one ever uses it! The printer was faulty, it's a round black blob usually
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stuving
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2022, 05:46:14 pm »

Clipping hole for a day return, to prevent re-use on same day - but no one ever uses it! The printer was faulty, it's a round black blob usually

Or is it round and black and equivalent to D for discounted adult fare, where a lozenge would be equivalent to C for child fare?
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ChrisB
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2022, 05:52:21 pm »

Good question, but I think I've seen it on DRs undiscounted too....
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JayMac
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2022, 09:10:55 pm »

Black circle - Railcard discount. (or D)
Black square - Non railcard discount or promo/sale fare.
Black diamond/lozenge - Child discount. (or C)

Nothing to do with clipping in that particular spot. Tickets can be gripped/clipped/scribbled on anywhere.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2022, 11:09:30 pm »

I thought it meant 'not valid on journeys requiring a reverse shunt on the Southend Pier Railway'...
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