pilot scheme in Scotland for cheap fares

[whole diary]

[infoman]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/peak-rail-fares-to-be-scrapped-for-six-months-as-part-of-pilot?mc_cid=9479624768&mc_eid=7fbb220518

[ChrisB]

Can you imagine gow much more the Govt would need to do this in England, on top of the £2billion its costing already?

[Ralph Ayres]

Interesting to see how it pans out. Great if it means travelling costs less, but will trains at popular times on some routes be severely overcrowded as there is no financial incentive for those who can be flexible to avoid travelling at such times?

I think it is unlikely to generate much entirely new travel, so for it to continue after the pilot, either the Scottish government will need to keep up the higher subsidy or the all day fare will have to move to somewhere between the old peak and off-peak fares. That won't please those who used to buy cheaper off-peak tickets!

[stuving]

I'd been expecting something a bit different, but still perhaps as a trial. That would be to remove peak fares on Monday and Friday: in effect the weekend becomes four days. That ought to be cheaper than this Scottish plan, at least.

With either scheme, one of the effects will presumably be for the now less-used peak trains to fill up again, and off-peak ones get emptier. So instead of more uniform service levels across the day (i.e. dropping the peak-only extras), there would be scope for retaining the old peak service levels and thinning out the off-peak ones.

[Mark A]

Can you imagine gow much more the Govt would need to do this in England, on top of the £2billion its costing already?

Sorry, lost the thread, what's costing £2 billion?

Mark

[ChrisB]

The current cost to the tax payer for running the railway

[grahame]

The interesting thing here is just how much more expensive anytime tickets are. The Glasgow to Edinburgh anytime fare of 27.60 is 1.94 times the off peak fare of 14.20 (and that's the future / trial fare).  But take a look at the fares in our region and the ratio differs wildly. Here are some examples; I've done my best to use nearest equivalents, though on routes like Melksham - Salisbury - Southampton, it's an anytime period ticket versus an off peak day ticket.

27.60   14.20   1.94   Glasgow to Edinburgh (as per newspaper)

59.00   18.70   3.16   Melksham to Oxford (day return)
182.80   54.10   3.38   Melksham to Southampton (not via London)
39.30   26.50   1.48   Melksham to Southampton (day via Salisbury)
222.40   65.40   3.40   London (Paddington) to Bath Spa (any permitted)
49.90   39.80   1.25   Exeter St Davids to Bath Spa (period returns)

[ChrisB]

Fares south of Manchester have been many times those of fares north thereof for many, many years

[grahame]

Fares south of Manchester have been many times those of fares north thereof for many, many years

That too - though I was looking at the ratios.   In absolute terms, for each Glasgow - Edinburgh return journey in the peak, there's going to be £13.40 less income.   If it was done on Melksham - Oxford, which is (I think) the nearest comparable distance I came up with, the income loss would be £40.30 ... which starts to explain why the scheme is cheaper in Scotland and fares there are already unfairly (red rag to bull?) cheap.

[ellendune]

Fares south of Manchester have been many times those of fares north thereof for many, many years

That too - though I was looking at the ratios.   In absolute terms, for each Glasgow - Edinburgh return journey in the peak, there's going to be £13.40 less income.   If it was done on Melksham - Oxford, which is (I think) the nearest comparable distance I came up with, the income loss would be £40.30 ... which starts to explain why the scheme is cheaper in Scotland and fares there are already unfairly (red rag to bull?) cheap.

I might disagree and suggest that our fares are unduly expensive!

[ChrisB]

I would agree with the above