CIV tickets: needs a 2023 refresher?

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

So... brfares.com lists CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) fares for e.g. London International - similar to standard single/return off peak + peak prices.

Also to various destinations on the island of Ireland, in which case prices and conditions are more attractive.

There must be a book to be written on 'Great vanished routes that at one time had through ticketing via rail and ship'...

Here's Bristol to London International (CIV)

https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=bri&dest=LNE

Rail Europe has a helpful explainer. At least, I hope it's helpful.

https://help.raileurope.co.uk/article/41665-understanding-civ

What, though, is the Euro Apex^▸ (Advanced Purchase Excursion (fare)) CIV? Info from National Rail

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/EAS.aspx

Overall tl:dr - even with CIV, consider quality travel insurance that covers expenses consequential to missed connections.

Is there a chapter to be written on how the rail industry can best handle this with an eye to growth? Goodwill goes a long way, but for all those people buying advance tickets as part of an onward journey involving international travel by all modes, there's a mismatch between the tickets offered by the rail companies versus what may be asked of them and perhaps there's a way to address this. The whole 'Onward travel by rail or air' experience shouldn't rely on having to make distress purchases when things go wrong.

Mark

[Mark A]

National Express info on flight delays and coach tickets:

https://faq.nationalexpress.com/s/article/What-should-I-do-if-my-flight-is-delayed-1581438962094?language=en_US

Mark

[grahame]

The whole 'Onward travel by rail or air' experience shouldn't rely on having to make distress purchases when things go wrong.

It goes beyond that - it should apply to buses and ferries too.   And the system should be easily understandable too


On CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) fares - taking your Bristol example - I've forgotten what the difference between an EOR "Euro Std Return" at £258.80 and an EVR "Euro High SVR Return" at £104.40 is.  Both of them are one day outbound, 2 months return, and no restrictions on the train you can use. The EVR is good value if you are travelling between Bristol and London on a train that does not allow normal off peak tickets; I would wonder if the gateline (human or electronic) at Paddington is familiar with the EVR 

[Trowres]

What a mess. Trying out different websites:

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - doesn't recognise London International or the code (LNE)
TfW - recognises LNE as a destination but comes up with an error message later
LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) - doesn't recognse London International or the code (LNE)
Avanti - recognises LNE code, finds trains but no fares available - except some advance purchase fares on LNER   

[grahame]

What a mess. Trying out different websites:

Couldn't find it on Train Hugger

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[plymothian]

What a mess. Trying out different websites:

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - doesn't recognise London International or the code (LNE)
TfW - recognises LNE as a destination but comes up with an error message later
LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) - doesn't recognse London International or the code (LNE)
Avanti - recognises LNE code, finds trains but no fares available - except some advance purchase fares on LNER   

You have to be able to prove you hold an international ticket to purchase a CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) fare, so these can only be done in person, not online.

[grahame]

What a mess. Trying out different websites:

GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - doesn't recognise London International or the code (LNE)
TfW - recognises LNE as a destination but comes up with an error message later
LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) - doesn't recognse London International or the code (LNE)
Avanti - recognises LNE code, finds trains but no fares available - except some advance purchase fares on LNER   

You have to be able to prove you hold an international ticket to purchase a CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) fare, so these can only be done in person, not online.

Your explanation is so much more customer-friendly that the results Trowres described.   Thank You.

I'm likely (personally) to need two of these tickets in a couple of months - where can I purchase them (in person) in Melksham - the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) or the train manager on the day { (s)he would love the commission and novelty, I suspect! }?  Do Senior Rail Card discounts apply?

[plymothian]

Yes, CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) tickets are saleable on board via the guard's TTK Avocet^▸ (Branch line from Exeter to Exmouth) machine.  They'll need to search for destination London International (CRS code LNE).

From Melksham to London International with SNR railcard:

Euro High Saver single any Permitted £40.25 via Swindon £35.70
EHS Return any Permitted £66.90 via Swindon £61.05
EHS Anytime return any Permitted £159.45 via Swindon £139.30
EHS Anytime 1st return any Permitted £209.85 via Swindon £232.80 (yes it is dearer on the more restricted route!)

By rights, they should be issued to ToD for collection at Paddington or Swindon, but PRT and e ticket are also shown as available.

As CIV ticket have no time restrictions, I see no advantage to buying an Anytime version.

All return tickets have a1 day out, 2 month back validity. Singles are all 2 month validity.

[Fourbee]

BRFares don't have restriction codes attached to the Euro High SVR fares, but I have seen restriction codes attached (same as the equivalent Off-Peak Return/SVR ticket to London) on some systems. I'm not aware if what plymouthian says about CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) tickets having no restrictions would override that or not.

[grahame]

BRFares don't have restriction codes attached to the Euro High SVR fares, but I have seen restriction codes attached (same as the equivalent Off-Peak Return/SVR ticket to London) on some systems. I'm not aware if what plymouthian says about CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) tickets having no restrictions would override that or not.

Hmmm ... the point of a CIV ticket is that it's not connection train specific and lets you drop back if your train from Brussels or your ship from Hook of Holland is late. It would be perverse if a late arrival from Brussels left you unable to join the next available train at Paddington when you had paid for the CIV ticket to give you the "insurance".

[plymothian]

Hmmm ... the point of a CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) ticket is that it's not connection train specific and lets you drop back if your train from Brussels or your ship from Hook of Holland is late. It would be perverse if a late arrival from Brussels left you unable to join the next available train at Paddington when you had paid for the CIV ticket to give you the "insurance".

CIV tickets are only for travellers who are using Eurostar via St Pancras International, they don't cover any ferry journeys.

For travel via Harwich International and Hoek van Holland, you're thinking of SailRail, which is only available between any Greater Anglia station and any station in the Netherlands.

[WSW Frome]

I have been issued with hand written CIV^▸ (International Convention for the transportation of Passengers) tickets in Ireland for use on the Irish ferry routes.