Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
No recent travel & transport from BBC stories as at 13:55 06 Nov 2024
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 21/11/24 - ORR Station use stats
23/11/24 - Congresbury cleanup volunteers
27/11/24 - WWRUG, Trowbridge
28/11/24 - Melksham TUG - 18:30

On this day
6th Nov (1961)
Demolition of Doric Arch, Euston (link)

Train RunningCancelled
09:10 Penzance to London Paddington
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
12:54 Reading to Gatwick Airport
13:24 Reading to Gatwick Airport
14:02 Westbury to Gloucester
14:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
14:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
15:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
15:48 London Paddington to Port Talbot Parkway
18:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
18:38 Port Talbot Parkway to London Paddington
20:34 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
22:16 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon
23:42 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa
Short Run
16:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
17:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare
19:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Severn Beach
20:06 Westbury to Cheltenham Spa
Delayed
12:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
13:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
13:42 Banbury to Didcot Parkway
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 09/11 00:45 Purely a light-hearted question, but who do you bet on?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
November 06, 2024, 14:13:15 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[112] Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway - ongoing dis...
[93] Euston Arch and Great Hall, demolished 1961 (from 6th November...
[61] When Bath Spa was mixed gauge...
[56] Various high speed rail closures in Spain.
[53] Platform 1
[46] Peter Blackburn, RIP
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Southern - west coastway proposed changes  (Read 2664 times)
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5333


View Profile
« on: June 30, 2023, 20:01:39 »

Southern have launched a consultation about rationalising the service patterns between Brighton and Portsmouth/Southampton.

I know a number of people have always been interested in the Southampton to Brighton route, and a number of calls for improvements have been made, often proposing more through services across Southampton.

What they’re proposing now though, is that both the Southampton services will run to Brighton, and be half an hour apart.  The flip side is that both Southern services from Portsmouth will therefore have run to Victoria.  Both “country” destinations end up with services 30/30 mins apart, rather than 45/15.

Southern explanatory pdf here:
https://www.southernrailway.com/-/media/goahead/gtr-all-shared-pdfs-and-documents/timetable-consultation-2023/west-coastway-timetables-changes-engagement.pdf

I think, (although they skim over the point), spreading the services on the Netley line about the hour might have a slight impact on GWR (Great Western Railway) and SWR» (South Western Railway - about) timings.

Hope this is of interest.

Paul
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42393



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2023, 10:53:36 »

Southern have launched a consultation about rationalising the service patterns between Brighton and Portsmouth/Southampton.

I know a number of people have always been interested in the Southampton to Brighton route, and a number of calls for improvements have been made, often proposing more through services across Southampton.

It makes for a very interesting read and study.   Not a line I have used very much but I note

* There is sense in the Woolston stops every half hour - you'll note that I can across this interchange-in-waiting on my rover the other week.

* There is also sense in having a regular 30 minute service from each of Southampton and Portsmouth on routes to an beyond Chichester

* I wonder how many passengers from Southampton and beyond travel on the direct train to Gatwick, and whether the loss of that through service for people who are likely to have heavy luggage and not be the most nimble changers at a station between Havant and Barnham on the new pattern

* Bognor looses its direct trains to both Littlehampton and Brighton.

* I suspect that traffic joining a train at one of the tiny stations and leaving at another of them is virtually non-existent, so that the alternating of stations on trains (none stopping at them all any longer) makes sense

* Has anyone considered serving all stations to Lymington Pier with an extension of a train from Brighton, or extending a Southampton to Brighton train onto Lewes, Eastbourne, Bexhill, Hastings and Ore?  How many carriages would that be limited to due to the layout of Brighton?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5333


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2023, 12:48:43 »

On the last point I believe there’s only platform 3 that allows a train to do the crossing from east to west, and it’s a mid platform set of points so very short, only 4 car.  The full platform 3 takes 12 cars as usual with the main part of Brighton station.

But even then I believe reliably timetabling a crossing move across the entire throat at Brighton is usually considered next to impossible, it must be quite a while since it was routinely done.

I think the 2017 SWR» (South Western Railway - about) proposals included a Portsmouth to Bournemouth through service, that was to be a semi fast on the Netley line but a stopper west of Southampton, but I don’t ever recall any serious proposals to have through trains to Lymington.  I think the probable reason is that there’s only a finite capacity on the Redbridge to Brockenhurst section, with the mix of fast and stopping trains, and the timings on the branch are suited to a shuttle. If a through train an up service would have to cross to the up side west of Brockenhurst, and coincide with a suitable path towards Southampton. 

Extending any SN service west of Southampton would always require an extra unit, or possibly units depending how far it went, but the times would have to fit in with SWR and XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)).  SN used to run Victoria to Bournemouth until about 2003, (from memory), and the service was apparently binned because it carried very few through passengers and got in the way of more useful services.

I also suspect if you theoretically could extend a Brighton service through to Lymington Pier it would not be able to have an adequate layover at that end of the route, so the only option for reliability would probably be to do that at Brockenhurst.

Paul
Logged
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1667


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2023, 21:36:07 »

"... both Brighton services serving Southampton only, providing connections for
journeys into the west of England."

Good to see inter-regional travel getting a mention, especially given the loss of the direct trains to/from Brighton.

Mark
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2023, 09:08:02 »

You'd think that with the decline of mass commuting, services might become less London-focused and therefore more inter-regional. At least you'd hope so.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
GBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1645


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2023, 12:18:50 »

You'd think that with the decline of mass commuting, services might become less London-focused and therefore more inter-regional. At least you'd hope so.
If less London focused, how are MP (Member of Parliament)'s supposed to turn up for work.
Perhaps they could work from home!
Logged

Personal opinion only.  Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)
Ralph Ayres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 389


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2023, 18:56:22 »

One unintended consequence of this may be daytrippers leaving the IoW ferry at Portsmouth Harbour and getting on the painfully slow Victoria train to London rather than the direct Waterloo one. Unless the differing journey times are clearly shown on journey screens it would be easy to be misled if you're not familiar with railway geography.

Incidentally, is the current operation of the Victoria trains terminating at/starting from Portsmouth & Southsea rather than the Harbour a recent thing? Sure I've often seen - and nearly caught without thinking - trains to Victoria when I've come off the ferry myself.
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1662



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2023, 07:37:54 »

Is that right?

I can't see that the proposal affects direct Portsmouth to Waterloo via Guildford seevices?
Logged
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2061


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2023, 08:26:02 »

PMH - WAT via either Guildford or Basingstoke are SWR» (South Western Railway - about) services
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42393



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2023, 08:49:38 »

Here are the current 12 trains in a typical hour from Portsmouth and Southsea

To London
10:04 12:08 PMH to Waterloo via Winchester - SWR» (South Western Railway - about)
10:08 11:51 PMH to Waterloo via Guildford - SWR
10:15 12:15 PMS to Victoria via Horsham and Gatwick Airport - Southern
10:50 12:22 PMH to Waterloo via Guildford - SWR

To other destinations off Portsea Island
10:27 PMH to Cardiff Central - GWR (Great Western Railway)
10:33 PMS to Brighton - Southern
10:38 PMS to Southampton Central - SWR
10:57 PMS to Littlehampton - Southern

And 4 trains to Portsmouth Harbour
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5333


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2023, 21:53:04 »

One unintended consequence of this may be daytrippers leaving the IoW ferry at Portsmouth Harbour and getting on the painfully slow Victoria train to London rather than the direct Waterloo one. Unless the differing journey times are clearly shown on journey screens it would be easy to be misled if you're not familiar with railway geography.

Incidentally, is the current operation of the Victoria trains terminating at/starting from Portsmouth & Southsea rather than the Harbour a recent thing? Sure I've often seen - and nearly caught without thinking - trains to Victoria when I've come off the ferry myself.
I think they cut back to Southsea sometime within the last couple of years, supposedly to increase the turnround time.

Regarding the times, I’d think it’s more of an issue to accidentally get on the Waterloo train that goes via Eastleigh and Basingstoke, I’d assume if you had arrived from Waterloo you’d be looking to go back to Waterloo?

Logged
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2061


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2023, 06:57:15 »

I also think there is more space at Portsmouth and Southsea low level.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page