11/11/23 Bus from Cornwall misses last train Plymouth - Paddington

[whole diary]

[Mark A]

... one Ros Atkins, a BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) news editor reports via ex-twitter. (He was on the bus, driver got lost.)

People from the bus are now at Plymouth, but the train they intended to be on is now east of Totnes. It's raining heavily. Oh and the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Twitter account has closed for the evening owing to staff sickness, but there'll surely be staff at Plymouth, yes?

Mark

[Mark A]

Update: passengers put aboard the 20:20 to Exeter.

Mark

[Mark A]

Update: the train manager of the Plymouth - Exeter took details of final destinations from everyone. The 21:17 Exeter to Bristol was held to allow passengers to connect into it.

Mark

[Mark A]

Update: passengers for onward destinations off the Bristol train at Taunton.

Mark

(Edit)... to await a special service formed from a train from Paddington that is terminating at Taunton. But that in itself is now delayed inbound at Cogload Junction...

[bradshaw]

Ross Atkins Twitter/X feed of the journey
https://x.com/bbcrosatkins/status/1723419394406064407?s=61&t=VlafMC5gF9tidw36b1Y8JQ

And at Paddington
https://x.com/bbcrosatkins/status/1723511019706679312?s=61&t=VlafMC5gF9tidw36b1Y8JQ

[Mark A]

Whew. Really wondered what was going to happen there but GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) really came through on this one and put a service together from Taunton to run through to Paddington.

Looks to be this one but something odd's happened to the data as the times from Taunton aren't right. The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04481/2023-11-11/detailed#allox_id=1

[TaplowGreen]

Whew. Really wondered what was going to happen there but GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) really came through on this one and put a service together from Taunton to run through to Paddington.

Looks to be this one but something odd's happened to the data as the times from Taunton aren't right. The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04481/2023-11-11/detailed#allox_id=1

Why didn't they just hold the train at Plymouth until the bus arrived, given it was the last train?

[bradshaw]

It seems like the service from Exeter was the 2116 held for the arrival of the coach.
Transferred into the 1Z31 to Bristol, which was to have worked as the 5C31 to Stoke Gifford.
The 1A40 was held at Temple Meads to allow passengers from the 1Z31 to have a cross platform connection to London
However, if you look at the ecs move of the 5C31 from Bristol to Stoke Gifford it left from p11, the same platform as 1A40 arrived so it seems that the 1Z31 ran through to Paddington as the 1A40 from Bristol!

[GBM]

Would like to think that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would do the same for us ordinary mortals, but wonder if this was someone 'special'.
Full marks for the Guard/Train Manager (s) involved, and to control for arranging something that worked.
Wonder if the RRB^▸ (Rail Replacement Bus) controller had a note of the number of vehicles travelling to Plymouth, and why they weren't counted in, thus involving delaying the last Plymouth departure.
Many (not all) service vehicles have radio's fitted, but we're now told we cannot answer (or call) when the vehicle is in motion.
We have to pull over and switch off, then we can use the radio or mobile phone.  That of course, delays the process even longer.

The RRB vehicles involved have come from the Midlands, East Anglia and all points down, so local route knowledge would be thin amongst the visiting drivers. Fully understandable the driver getting lost if he wasn't local.
Standard fitting of Sat Navs in coaches, etc doesn't currently exist.

[grahame]

Whew. Really wondered what was going to happen there but GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) really came through on this one and put a service together from Taunton to run through to Paddington.

Looks to be this one but something odd's happened to the data as the times from Taunton aren't right. The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04481/2023-11-11/detailed#allox_id=1

Why didn't they just hold the train at Plymouth until the bus arrived, given it was the last train?

Perhaps the train crew and and any dispatchers at Plymouth hadn't realised they were missing a bus?  Or perhaps, with a train terminating at Taunton and running back - at least as far as Stoke Gifford - empty, perhaps they chose the lower cost and more customer friendly option.   So delay-repay just for the people from that bus rather than the entire custom of the 20:20 from Plymouth including intermediate traffic

[IndustryInsider]

Whew. Really wondered what was going to happen there but GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) really came through on this one and put a service together from Taunton to run through to Paddington.

Looks to be this one but something odd's happened to the data as the times from Taunton aren't right. The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04481/2023-11-11/detailed#allox_id=1

Why didn't they just hold the train at Plymouth until the bus arrived, given it was the last train?

Perhaps the train crew and and any dispatchers at Plymouth hadn't realised they were missing a bus?  Or perhaps, with a train terminating at Taunton and running back - at least as far as Stoke Gifford - empty, perhaps they chose the lower cost and more customer friendly option.   So delay-repay just for the people from that bus rather than the entire custom of the 20:20 from Plymouth including intermediate traffic

How long after 20:20 did the bus eventually arrive?

[TaplowGreen]

Whew. Really wondered what was going to happen there but GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) really came through on this one and put a service together from Taunton to run through to Paddington.

Looks to be this one but something odd's happened to the data as the times from Taunton aren't right. The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them.

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P04481/2023-11-11/detailed#allox_id=1

Why didn't they just hold the train at Plymouth until the bus arrived, given it was the last train?

Perhaps the train crew and and any dispatchers at Plymouth hadn't realised they were missing a bus?  Or perhaps, with a train terminating at Taunton and running back - at least as far as Stoke Gifford - empty, perhaps they chose the lower cost and more customer friendly option.   So delay-repay just for the people from that bus rather than the entire custom of the 20:20 from Plymouth including intermediate traffic

How long after 20:20 did the bus eventually arrive?

Looks like they got to Plymouth at 20:10 - I am happy to be corrected however I believe that the service they would have got had the bus been on time was the 19:50 - the last direct service - surely it could have waited for 20 minutes to avoid the odyssey they ultimately had to undertake?

[IndustryInsider]

Looks like they got to Plymouth at 20:10 - I am happy to be corrected however I believe that the service they would have got had the bus been on time was the 19:50 - the last direct service - surely it could have waited for 20 minutes to avoid the odyssey they ultimately had to undertake?

I don't think it would be right to hold a train for 20+ minutes for a bus.  What about onward connections people already on board the 19:50 might have had at Exeter, Bristol, Swindon or Reading?

If a bus has gone MIA it's not easy to know exactly when it might arrive - traffic near the station, another wrong turn etc., so I think you have to draw the line somewhere and make alternative arrangements (as was done).  That decision needs to take into account the number of passengers already on the train and the number of passengers on board the bus wanting to connect and what their destinations are.  Neither of which know - though Mark said "The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them." - but generally I think that line should be drawn at much less than 20 minutes.

[TaplowGreen]

Looks like they got to Plymouth at 20:10 - I am happy to be corrected however I believe that the service they would have got had the bus been on time was the 19:50 - the last direct service - surely it could have waited for 20 minutes to avoid the odyssey they ultimately had to undertake?

I don't think it would be right to hold a train for 20+ minutes for a bus.  What about onward connections people already on board the 19:50 might have had at Exeter, Bristol, Swindon or Reading?

If a bus has gone MIA it's not easy to know exactly when it might arrive - traffic near the station, another wrong turn etc., so I think you have to draw the line somewhere and make alternative arrangements (as was done).  That decision needs to take into account the number of passengers already on the train and the number of passengers on board the bus wanting to connect and what their destinations are.  Neither of which know - though Mark said "The (few) passengers reported as pleased to have a 'Special train' put on for them." - but generally I think that line should be drawn at much less than 20 minutes.

Had it been a late running train from Penzance (as opposed to a bus) which meant that the connection to the last London train was going to be missed by those on board, what would have been the routine in that scenario?

[IndustryInsider]

Had it been a late running train from Penzance (as opposed to a bus) which meant that the connection to the last London train was going to be missed by those on board, what would have been the routine in that scenario?

Interesting question.

The TM^‡(resolve) on the Penzance train would have been able to do an accurate headcount, and the precise location of the train and therefore an accurate ETA would be much easier to determine.  All of which might sway the decision in the favour of a train hold.  Though a hold of over 20 minutes for a mainline train is quite rare IME^▸ (in my experience), especially when an alternative route by train can be provided as it was in this case.