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Author Topic: County Cricket on the move from Bristol?  (Read 1184 times)
grahame
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« on: December 05, 2023, 19:26:36 »

Gloucestershire County Cricket Club are looking to move to a green field site in South Gloucestershire "near to the M4". Does that also mean near to the railway, and if so which station?  Would that have an adequate service?  Do you know what I am wondering?
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WelshBluebird
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2023, 21:29:04 »

Of course the existing ground is within months of having a station open within a 5 minute walk!
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froome
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2023, 22:41:18 »

Of course the existing ground is within months of having a station open within a 5 minute walk!

My very thought.

This is madness.
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broadgage
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2023, 02:05:37 »

In my view, planning permission should not be granted for major new sports grounds that are not close to a rail station.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2023, 05:34:27 »

In my view, planning permission should not be granted for major new sports grounds that are not close to a rail station.

Why not?
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infoman
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2023, 07:17:41 »

Thought it was an open meeting at 1pm on Tuesday 5th December,but it was for members only,and I thought there were two more meetings later in the day.

I think selling the ground for housing will bring more benefit for the cricket club to secure better players
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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2023, 07:35:27 »

In my view, planning permission should not be granted for major new sports grounds that are not close to a rail station.

Why not?

Major planning applications require travel plans in addition to myriads of other plans and reports, but whether these are got right, and whether facilities provided are then actually used the intended and in a proper way.

Schools around where I live are a real problem - primary designed for a locality and with decent walking routes, but then primarily served by a set of fossil-fuel-burning, carbon-generating mum's taxis, clogging the local streets with SUVs in which the majority of seats are unoccupied and spend half their moving life on journeys to and from depot. It's caused by a freedom to choose a school for each little darling which we rightfully give but do not cater for.  And it causes discomfort s and safety issues around the schools - all of them - Rivermead, Aloeric, Manor, Bowerhill and Forest & Sandridge. A new build that's just outside my ward (in the next Parish) is in planning.  It's well scattered with the other primary schools -  designed with reasonable walking routes to and from the catchment that has no other close school, but there is a deep worry about traffic jams that will be caused due to very limited road access and just a tiny area of motor car facilities at the school.

Sports facilities here - the Oakfield ground Rugby and Football clubs - were built on a green field site on the edge of the town - the far side of the town from the railway station, and proudly around 400 yards from but route 15 with 2 services a day. Walking and cycling are reasonable though they are not, I note, in the strategic plan proposals that we have been asked to consult on over the next fortnight.    The people who come here ARE from quite a distance - away teams and fans from across the region - and I regret there not being better public transport there though the whole thing needs to be based on a very lumpy traffic requiring total journeys to and from other places which don't have easy rail travel from Melksham anyway.  This month - Evesham, Frome, Wimborne, Paulton, Supermarine and Bristol (Manor Farm)

I'm also minded by places like Coventry where as I understand it there's a railway station beside a huge new stadium (and it's a re-opened station too!) where the station is CLOSED on major match days because it would become dangerously overcrowded.

It makes sense to provide a travel plan for new builds and - looking environmentally forward - they should include crowd arrival and departure plans that are green mass transit at the venue, and considerate of total journey.  And, yes, a railway station with platforms long enough for high capacity trains, and lines to run enough of those long trains to and from places they can be further gathered from or disipated from is the excellent and obvious solution.  Whether that's a solution that will take the fancy and be accepted by the pockets of those who make the decisions ... we'll have to wait and see. The press comment of "near the M4" may give us a clue.
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bradshaw
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2023, 08:14:47 »

It may also be in relation to the changes in structure of the cricket season, especially the Hundred. Here Somerset, Glamorgan and Gloucester are vying for one franchise!
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Mark A
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2023, 09:49:01 »


I'm also minded by places like Coventry where as I understand it there's a railway station beside a huge new stadium (and it's a re-opened station too!) where the station is CLOSED on major match days because it would become dangerously overcrowded.


Station next to the stadium, and a little hourly shuttle, not sure if it's now more than two carriages. Mahoosive road connection and a nearby motorway though.

Looking at sport from the outside, there's a huge strand going through it that goes out of its way to be an enormous generator of traffic whether road or air - and to generally open people's wallets and that's not accidental, it's the core function. It's a long time since the likes of Shrewsbury football club retained a coracle in order to fetch the ball when it went into the Severn...

Mark

(Civil Aviation Authority - about)/2023-12-13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt" target="_blank">https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAA/2023-12-13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 11:27:59 by Mark A » Logged
broadgage
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2023, 09:53:12 »

In my view, planning permission should not be granted for major new sports grounds that are not close to a rail station.

Why not?

In order to reduce the environmental costs of road transport, in order keep major sporting events accessible to those who do not drive, and to avoid adding to traffic congestion.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2023, 11:47:36 »


I'm also minded by places like Coventry where as I understand it there's a railway station beside a huge new stadium (and it's a re-opened station too!) where the station is CLOSED on major match days because it would become dangerously overcrowded.


Station next to the stadium, and a little hourly shuttle, not sure if it's now more than two carriages. Mahoosive road connection and a nearby motorway though.





(Civil Aviation Authority - about)/2023-12-13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt" target="_blank">https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAA/2023-12-13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

That's largely because big stadiums are no longer just focused on Saturday matches, they are used for conferences during the week and concerts etc too (often with late night finishes) so those connections are necessary.

It's unrealistic to expect people to be obliged to be shoehorned onto a train when they are coming from often a long distance and from all directions.

By all means ideally have a station nearby (with sufficient capacity for large events, which in itself is limiting as anyone whose tried to get a post match train from Cardiff Central will testify) but people need to be given a choice whether travelling by car, coach etc.

To ban the construction of new stadiums unless they're near a station is plain daft I'm afraid.


« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 11:53:52 by TaplowGreen » Logged
eightonedee
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2023, 22:58:13 »

Quote
It's unrealistic to expect people to be obliged to be shoehorned onto a train when they are coming from often a long distance and from all directions.

To be fair, TG, Broadgage was not saying that everyone would be obliged to travel by train, merely that major new stadiums (stadia?) should be close to railway stations. It begs a question as to what "close" might be, but it is now an accepted part of planning decision making to consider the impact of transport provision, and to refuse permission if there's not adequate public transport (the provision of which might be as part of the proposed development). If it is a national sport (as county cricket is) I think it is reasonable to expect a major new stadium to be reasonably well placed for rail access, which might be by a good bus connection to a station with adequate capacity.  
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2023, 07:11:16 »

Quote
It's unrealistic to expect people to be obliged to be shoehorned onto a train when they are coming from often a long distance and from all directions.

To be fair, TG, Broadgage was not saying that everyone would be obliged to travel by train, merely that major new stadiums (stadia?) should be close to railway stations. It begs a question as to what "close" might be, but it is now an accepted part of planning decision making to consider the impact of transport provision, and to refuse permission if there's not adequate public transport (the provision of which might be as part of the proposed development). If it is a national sport (as county cricket is) I think it is reasonable to expect a major new stadium to be reasonably well placed for rail access, which might be by a good bus connection to a station with adequate capacity.  

OK I accept that up to a point, but if one of the drivers is "to avoid adding to traffic congestion" then there would have to be an element of obligation or at least incentive, and what if you're travelling long distance without a suitable connection?

Shuttle buses "football specials" are an entirely reasonable suggestion and worked well at Reading, but then again you would be raising an expectation, and would need to be able to guarantee rail services with adequate capacity and sufficiently late services to cope with major events (including day/night cricket matches with your example?), which simply isn't the case even in large centres such as Cardiff..............or even Plymouth! :-)

I suspect carrot would be a better approach than stick - the default position of shouting for things to be banned/not allowed without considering individual circumstances is, I repeat, daft - what, for example, do you do in the case of towns which have a big sporting footprint but no, or only a small rail station?, and I repeat that modern stadiums are about far more than simply Saturday afternoon sport.
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2023, 10:23:50 »

I support freedom of choice, including the freedom to drive to major sports stadia.
What I can not support is preventing the freedom to travel by train, by building such stadia away from stations, thereby "locking in" road travel probably for decades to come.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2023, 10:39:42 »

"near" a station, should in my view mean within half a mile, measured from the mid point of the train to the main entrance of the stadium. Not half a mile from the station entrance , but from the train.

Whilst a major station is preferable, even a small station is a possibility providing that it can be improved in capacity. As part of stadium building project. An extra platform suitable for a 12 car train would be a considerable help. Three 12 car trains arriving say 30 minutes, 40 minutes and 50 minutes before the start of the match should shift about 4,000 passengers. With decent signalling, shorter headways should be possible, allowing for perhaps 10,000 passengers arriving a reasonable time before the match.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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