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Author Topic: Network Rail is failing.  (Read 3488 times)
JayMac
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« on: December 08, 2023, 01:51:03 »

Personal opinion.

Network Rail are failing left, right and centre. It's time for Andrew Haines to start by, at the very least, making public apologies.

We only really highlight problems on GWR (Great Western Railway), and to a lesser extent SWR» (South Western Railway - about), lines on this forum, but there have been far too many instances of infrastructure failures in this part of the world in recent weeks. The weather can't be blamed for all of them. Looking wider there has major disruption in all parts of the country recently where the cause has been infrastructure related.

Under no circumstances should people should be stranded on trains for four hours plus, on a mainline in a densely populated part of the country. Tonight's fiasco wasn't on a rural branch line miles from anywhere. I fully understand the self-evacuations that took place. I would've done the same. Mealy mouthed apologies in the media from a nameless 'Network Rail spokesperson' just isn't good enough.

It's time Andrew Haines was in front of a Select Committee explaining himself. Preferably before there's an infrastructure failing that costs lives. I believe the situation currently really is that serious. Also, if it's budgetry constraints that are part of the cause of these failings then whoever is this week's SoS for Transport needs to be hauled before Committee too.

The network is falling apart. And I'm bloody angry about it.  Angry Angry Angry
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2023, 07:19:50 »

Even more worrying when you consider the Haines/Hendy combination is of two highly respected individuals.

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Electric train
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2023, 07:28:15 »

Personal opinion.

Network Rail are failing left, right and centre. It's time for Andrew Haines to start by, at the very least, making public apologies.

We only really highlight problems on GWR (Great Western Railway), and to a lesser extent SWR» (South Western Railway - about), lines on this forum, but there have been far too many instances of infrastructure failures in this part of the world in recent weeks. The weather can't be blamed for all of them. Looking wider there has major disruption in all parts of the country recently where the cause has been infrastructure related.

Under no circumstances should people should be stranded on trains for four hours plus, on a mainline in a densely populated part of the country. Tonight's fiasco wasn't on a rural branch line miles from anywhere. I fully understand the self-evacuations that took place. I would've done the same. Mealy mouthed apologies in the media from a nameless 'Network Rail spokesperson' just isn't good enough.

It's time Andrew Haines was in front of a Select Committee explaining himself. Preferably before there's an infrastructure failing that costs lives. I believe the situation currently really is that serious. Also, if it's budgetry constraints that are part of the cause of these failings then whoever is this week's SoS for Transport needs to be hauled before Committee too.

The network is falling apart. And I'm bloody angry about it.  Angry Angry Angry

What is happening on the Western and Wales Region specifically in the Thames Valley area recently is not wholly representative of the rest of Network Rail.

Andrew Haines if he were to appear before a select committee he would say give the Rail Industry GBR (Great British Railways).  By the way he does has regular meetings with the Rail Minister, I suspect he and the Regional Managing Director were on conference calls with the Minster last night.

The decision to evacuate passengers is not one taken lightly, track level is a very hazardous environment, track ballast is not easy to walk on, there are cables, catch pits and much more which is a challenge to experienced track workers. There has to be a plan of where do you take people to exit the railway and then you need to assist them to a safe place.  
Where people left to long, yes.
Could water, food have been provided probably  
The fact that the public address on the Elizabeth Line train stopped working fairly quickly needs to be looked at.
There are no "Thunder Birds" for class 387 and 345 trains unlike class 800 which have engines so can self rescue.  Should there be a "Thunder Bird" based at Old Oak Common, Northpole or Reading

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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2023, 08:01:07 »

Water and biscuits should be provided on the 345/387 fleets (and others) as they are in IETS.  Space is certainly available on the 387s for such supplies.

It appears that, despite promises to learn the lessons when events like this occur, few lessons are learnt.
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Timmer
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2023, 08:02:20 »

Once again the default mantra of the railways that gets paraded across social media, this morning by GWR (Great Western Railway) - DO NOT TRAVEL.

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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2023, 08:11:04 »

Personal opinion.

Network Rail are failing left, right and centre. It's time for Andrew Haines to start by, at the very least, making public apologies.

We only really highlight problems on GWR (Great Western Railway), and to a lesser extent SWR» (South Western Railway - about), lines on this forum, but there have been far too many instances of infrastructure failures in this part of the world in recent weeks. The weather can't be blamed for all of them. Looking wider there has major disruption in all parts of the country recently where the cause has been infrastructure related.

Under no circumstances should people should be stranded on trains for four hours plus, on a mainline in a densely populated part of the country. Tonight's fiasco wasn't on a rural branch line miles from anywhere. I fully understand the self-evacuations that took place. I would've done the same. Mealy mouthed apologies in the media from a nameless 'Network Rail spokesperson' just isn't good enough.

It's time Andrew Haines was in front of a Select Committee explaining himself. Preferably before there's an infrastructure failing that costs lives. I believe the situation currently really is that serious. Also, if it's budgetry constraints that are part of the cause of these failings then whoever is this week's SoS for Transport needs to be hauled before Committee too.

The network is falling apart. And I'm bloody angry about it.  Angry Angry Angry

What is happening on the Western and Wales Region specifically in the Thames Valley area recently is not wholly representative of the rest of Network Rail.

Andrew Haines if he were to appear before a select committee he would say give the Rail Industry GBR (Great British Railways).  By the way he does has regular meetings with the Rail Minister, I suspect he and the Regional Managing Director were on conference calls with the Minster last night.

The decision to evacuate passengers is not one taken lightly, track level is a very hazardous environment, track ballast is not easy to walk on, there are cables, catch pits and much more which is a challenge to experienced track workers. There has to be a plan of where do you take people to exit the railway and then you need to assist them to a safe place.  
Where people left to long, yes.
Could water, food have been provided probably  
The fact that the public address on the Elizabeth Line train stopped working fairly quickly needs to be looked at.
There are no "Thunder Birds" for class 387 and 345 trains unlike class 800 which have engines so can self rescue.  Should there be a "Thunder Bird" based at Old Oak Common, Northpole or Reading



On another forum it's stated that GWRs class 57 was requested as a rescue loco as it has a universal coupling available, however as the ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) bruvvers are taking industrial action this request wasn't met.
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GBM
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2023, 08:21:04 »

On another forum it's stated that GWRs (Great Western Railway) class 57 was requested as a rescue loco as it has a universal coupling available, however as the ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) bruvvers are taking industrial action this request wasn't met.
I was under the impression that some Managers who are qualified drivers could have taken a rescue loco out to assist.
In any dispute, the managers seem to work normally.
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plymothian
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2023, 10:08:57 »

I dunno, I have a feeling that using a single loco to rescue multiple trains one at a time might have taken longer to complete than the 3 hours before evacuation took place.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2023, 10:13:27 »

On another forum it's stated that GWRs (Great Western Railway) class 57 was requested as a rescue loco as it has a universal coupling available, however as the ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) bruvvers are taking industrial action this request wasn't met.
I was under the impression that some Managers who are qualified drivers could have taken a rescue loco out to assist.
In any dispute, the managers seem to work normally.

Apparently a 57 was out this morning rescuing a stranded HEX train.
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stuving
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2023, 10:33:25 »

On another forum it's stated that GWRs (Great Western Railway) class 57 was requested as a rescue loco as it has a universal coupling available, however as the ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) bruvvers are taking industrial action this request wasn't met.
I was under the impression that some Managers who are qualified drivers could have taken a rescue loco out to assist.
In any dispute, the managers seem to work normally.

I think they were doing more than that - probably all those qualified to drive trains were out driving trains. Not having a manager who can take on a 57 does not sound so unlikely.
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Timmer
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2023, 12:15:38 »

The Telegraph reporting that Andrew Haines was on board the train involved in the incident with the overhead wires, the 1830 1C28 Paddington to Cardiff with 900 passengers onboard. So he would have had firsthand experience how it was all handled.

900 passengers…the train must have been absolutely packed.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2023, 12:26:03 »

I dunno, I have a feeling that using a single loco to rescue multiple trains one at a time might have taken longer to complete than the 3 hours before evacuation took place.

Almost certainly. Even two or three 57s would take ages to rescue multiple stranded trains.

When there’s no power, Class 387s load shed as follows:

30 seconds:
Toilet water heater lost
Non drivers side light, windscreen wiper and heater lost

60 seconds:
PIS (Passenger Information System) displays lost

10 minutes:
2/3rds lighting lost (so down to ‘emergency’ lighting only)

60 minutes:
Half door controls lost
Emergency lighting lost

90 minutes:
Saloon HVAC lost

180 minutes:
All door control lost and unit will AUX off.

After that, it’s a dead duck aside from the driver having up to three five minute periods of GSMR operation to communicate with the signaller.

Elizabeth Line Class 345s are likely to be similar as they are built by the same manufacturer…though no toilets obviously.
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2023, 12:57:26 »

“We’re sorry that the damage caused to Network Rail’s overhead power lines by another rail operator’s train has caused significant disruption to our Elizabeth line customers as well as all train operators out of London Paddington."

This response from TfL» (Transport for London - about) perfectly sums up the state of the UK (United Kingdom) rail network. Fractured. Broken. Blame shifting.

It wasn't our train that done it guv.
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2023, 14:14:36 »

The Telegraph reporting that Andrew Haines was on board the train involved in the incident with the overhead wires, the 1830 1C28 Paddington to Cardiff with 900 passengers onboard. So he would have had firsthand experience how it was all handled.

900 passengers…the train must have been absolutely packed.

RTT» (Real Time Trains - website) reports
Quote
1C28 1830 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
This service was cancelled due to a problem with the electrified line (I1).
No departure time from Paddington.
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stuving
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2023, 14:41:53 »

Lest you should get the idea that this kind of thing is a local speciality ... this is different, but also a single point of failure:

Yesterday at midday a burst pipe at Châtelet-Les Halles (Paris) flooded a room full of signalling equipment, putting it out of commission and stopping all trains on this key central section of RER lines A, B, and D. Services did restart on each side fairly soon, but that left a huge number of people needing to change at Châtelet-Les Halles. Through services did restart on a limited basis after 18:00, by which time that station, and its neighbours, and the Métro lines that had to serve as back-up, were all massively overcrowded and took hours to recover.

And, as reporters have (all too gleefully) said, this is within a year of the Olympics, for which faultless public transport in Paris has been promised.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 16:47:25 by stuving » Logged
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