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Author Topic: £140 million plan to address Paddington - Reading shambles  (Read 2354 times)
bobm
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« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2024, 15:11:20 »

ARS (Automatic Route Setting) was installed in the 90s as part of the Paddington remodelling. If it’s still in used it can be selectively enabled/disabled in zones allowing it to support a signaller rather than replacing them. This allows a signaller to focus on a problem area rather than the more routine routing.

With acronyms in mind, I suppose it was just as well when ARS was being brought it in they didn't call it Automatic Route Setting Equipment.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2024, 15:53:31 by bobm » Logged
4064ReadingAbbey
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« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2024, 17:02:28 »

I would hope the money is spent on addressing causes rather than symptoms.

Good on Mayor Khan for sticking his head above the parapet like this and pointing out that NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s performance is unacceptable.

Certain TOC (Train Operating Company) MDs could learn a bit from that.

Khan is first and foremost a politician. As the infrastructure failures also affect all traffic on the Great Western Main Line it is, at best, disingenuous to imply that it’s only the Elizabeth line that is affected.

If he can imply that the blame for the failures lies with Network Rail the implication is that it’s actually the fault of the Government for being tight fisted. He is Labour and the Government is Conservative so why am I not surprised by his statement? He is also playing the ‘fares freeze’ game again. In January he announced that TfL» (Transport for London - about)’s fares will be frozen for the current year, see this press release https://www.london.gov.uk/mayor-steps-and-announces-hell-freeze-tfl-fares-year-easing-cost-millions-londoners

What he doesn’t mention is that as a result there will be a shortfall in TfL’s income (again) which will inevitably result in another call on the Government for more support for TfL's investment programmes.

For what it’s worth I reckon that the Great Western has been undermaintained over the last fifteen years or so due to lack of engineering access caused by the Reading station rebuild, the construction of the extra flyovers at Stockley and the flyunder at Acton as well as the electrification work west of Airport Junction and transfer of the signalling control to Didcot. After a while all this deferred maintenance shows its ugly face and with the increase in the number of trains running getting onto the tracks to do stuff is getting more and more difficult.

If Khan was serious about getting the infrastructure more reliable he would meet Network Rail, GWR (Great Western Railway) and the freight operators half way and offer to cut the number of trains operating dramatically in those hours when maintenance is possible.

If not, then it’s only grandstanding.

PS: The original electrification was not done on the cheap - it was designed and installed to cope with four multiple unit trains per hour in each direction. It worked as designed very well until the number of electrically powered trains rose dramatically.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2024, 17:52:40 »

I would hope the money is spent on addressing causes rather than symptoms.

Good on Mayor Khan for sticking his head above the parapet like this and pointing out that NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s performance is unacceptable.

Certain TOC (Train Operating Company) MDs could learn a bit from that.






If Khan was serious about getting the infrastructure more reliable he would meet Network Rail, GWR (Great Western Railway) and the freight operators half way and offer to cut the number of trains operating dramatically in those hours when maintenance is possible.



He is, he has, and Elizabeth Line trains are being cut in the manner you suggest.

Worth reading the article linked in the initial post on this thread.
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« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2024, 18:36:33 »

just curious, are the UR/DR lines on a  separate circuit than the UM/DM lines?

If you are refereeing to 25kV circuits then yes.  Each line is broken down in to electrical sections and has a circuit breaker at each end of the electrical section.  For example Maidenhead MPATS (Mid Point Auto Transformer Site - electrification) to Twyford IATS and Reading ATFS (well soon to be a feeders station)

The electrical section are then divided into sub sections by Over Headline switches these can be manual or motorised
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« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2024, 20:01:47 »

ARS (Automatic Route Setting) was installed in the 90s as part of the Paddington remodelling. If it’s still in used it can be selectively enabled/disabled in zones allowing it to support a signaller rather than replacing them. This allows a signaller to focus on a problem area rather than the more routine routing.

With acronyms in mind, I suppose it was just as well when ARS was being brought it in they didn't call it Automatic Route Setting Equipment.

I was thinking of the Luminate system of traffic management.
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4064ReadingAbbey
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« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2024, 21:15:07 »

I would hope the money is spent on addressing causes rather than symptoms.

Good on Mayor Khan for sticking his head above the parapet like this and pointing out that NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s performance is unacceptable.

Certain TOC (Train Operating Company) MDs could learn a bit from that.






If Khan was serious about getting the infrastructure more reliable he would meet Network Rail, GWR (Great Western Railway) and the freight operators half way and offer to cut the number of trains operating dramatically in those hours when maintenance is possible.



He is, he has, and Elizabeth Line trains are being cut in the manner you suggest.

Worth reading the article linked in the initial post on this thread.

I have. The article states

QUOTE
Between Monday and Thursday until March 28 there will be a reduced Elizabeth line service from Paddington from 9.30pm, with four trains an hour to Heathrow airport and two to Reading.
END QUOTE

This is neither very long - how much can be done in the next three weeks? - and only affects the stretch out to Maidenhead. Removing a couple of trains an hour to Heathrow and a couple of trains an hour to Maidenhead late at night is merely show business.
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Electric train
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« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2024, 06:46:27 »


I have. The article states

QUOTE
Between Monday and Thursday until March 28 there will be a reduced Elizabeth line service from Paddington from 9.30pm, with four trains an hour to Heathrow airport and two to Reading.
END QUOTE

This is neither very long - how much can be done in the next three weeks? - and only affects the stretch out to Maidenhead. Removing a couple of trains an hour to Heathrow and a couple of trains an hour to Maidenhead late at night is merely show business.


It all depends on what else has been cut out; for example are there any services starting / terminating at Reading, the removal of the semi fast to Didcot and Newbury. 

It will be about freeing up lines in between Paddington and Acton this will give more time to get the possession and isolation in place on some lines.   The process setting up and giving up possessions and isolations eats into the available time to do actual work, there are ways to speed it up but there are no short cuts in the process.
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4064ReadingAbbey
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2024, 09:04:41 »


I have. The article states

QUOTE
Between Monday and Thursday until March 28 there will be a reduced Elizabeth line service from Paddington from 9.30pm, with four trains an hour to Heathrow airport and two to Reading.
END QUOTE

This is neither very long - how much can be done in the next three weeks? - and only affects the stretch out to Maidenhead. Removing a couple of trains an hour to Heathrow and a couple of trains an hour to Maidenhead late at night is merely show business.


It all depends on what else has been cut out; for example are there any services starting / terminating at Reading, the removal of the semi fast to Didcot and Newbury. 

It will be about freeing up lines in between Paddington and Acton this will give more time to get the possession and isolation in place on some lines.   The process setting up and giving up possessions and isolations eats into the available time to do actual work, there are ways to speed it up but there are no short cuts in the process.

Oh, quite, I agree. But the subject was about Mayor Khan's implication that the only railway west of Paddington is the Elizabeth line, nowhere was any mention made that other operators use the Great Western Main Line as well. I repeat, his statement was simply show business.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2024, 12:55:44 »


I have. The article states

QUOTE
Between Monday and Thursday until March 28 there will be a reduced Elizabeth line service from Paddington from 9.30pm, with four trains an hour to Heathrow airport and two to Reading.
END QUOTE

This is neither very long - how much can be done in the next three weeks? - and only affects the stretch out to Maidenhead. Removing a couple of trains an hour to Heathrow and a couple of trains an hour to Maidenhead late at night is merely show business.


It all depends on what else has been cut out; for example are there any services starting / terminating at Reading, the removal of the semi fast to Didcot and Newbury. 

It will be about freeing up lines in between Paddington and Acton this will give more time to get the possession and isolation in place on some lines.   The process setting up and giving up possessions and isolations eats into the available time to do actual work, there are ways to speed it up but there are no short cuts in the process.

Oh, quite, I agree. But the subject was about Mayor Khan's implication that the only railway west of Paddington is the Elizabeth line, nowhere was any mention made that other operators use the Great Western Main Line as well. I repeat, his statement was simply show business.

I suspect he's concerning himself with his remit, although he seems to have catalysed something which will be to the benefit of all, in contrast there's been a deafening silence from the upper reaches of GWR (Great Western Railway).
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a-driver
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« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2024, 14:17:22 »


I have. The article states

QUOTE
Between Monday and Thursday until March 28 there will be a reduced Elizabeth line service from Paddington from 9.30pm, with four trains an hour to Heathrow airport and two to Reading.
END QUOTE

This is neither very long - how much can be done in the next three weeks? - and only affects the stretch out to Maidenhead. Removing a couple of trains an hour to Heathrow and a couple of trains an hour to Maidenhead late at night is merely show business.


It all depends on what else has been cut out; for example are there any services starting / terminating at Reading, the removal of the semi fast to Didcot and Newbury. 

It will be about freeing up lines in between Paddington and Acton this will give more time to get the possession and isolation in place on some lines.   The process setting up and giving up possessions and isolations eats into the available time to do actual work, there are ways to speed it up but there are no short cuts in the process.

Oh, quite, I agree. But the subject was about Mayor Khan's implication that the only railway west of Paddington is the Elizabeth line, nowhere was any mention made that other operators use the Great Western Main Line as well. I repeat, his statement was simply show business.

I suspect he's concerning himself with his remit, although he seems to have catalysed something which will be to the benefit of all, in contrast there's been a deafening silence from the upper reaches of GWR (Great Western Railway).

Has he catalysed something….. or has Khan been offered a few quid in compensation payments in return for cutting a few services?  Things are rarely as they seem.
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1st fan
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« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2024, 16:06:34 »

I would hope the money is spent on addressing causes rather than symptoms.

Good on Mayor Khan for sticking his head above the parapet like this and pointing out that NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s performance is unacceptable.

Certain TOC (Train Operating Company) MDs could learn a bit from that.

Khan is first and foremost a politician. As the infrastructure failures also affect all traffic on the Great Western Main Line it is, at best, disingenuous to imply that it’s only the Elizabeth line that is affected.

If he can imply that the blame for the failures lies with Network Rail the implication is that it’s actually the fault of the Government for being tight fisted. He is Labour and the Government is Conservative so why am I not surprised by his statement? He is also playing the ‘fares freeze’ game again. In January he announced that TfL» (Transport for London - about)’s fares will be frozen for the current year, see this press release https://www.london.gov.uk/mayor-steps-and-announces-hell-freeze-tfl-fares-year-easing-cost-millions-londoners

What he doesn’t mention is that as a result there will be a shortfall in TfL’s income (again) which will inevitably result in another call on the Government for more support for TfL's investment programmes.

For what it’s worth I reckon that the Great Western has been undermaintained over the last fifteen years or so due to lack of engineering access caused by the Reading station rebuild, the construction of the extra flyovers at Stockley and the flyunder at Acton as well as the electrification work west of Airport Junction and transfer of the signalling control to Didcot. After a while all this deferred maintenance shows its ugly face and with the increase in the number of trains running getting onto the tracks to do stuff is getting more and more difficult.

If Khan was serious about getting the infrastructure more reliable he would meet Network Rail, GWR (Great Western Railway) and the freight operators half way and offer to cut the number of trains operating dramatically in those hours when maintenance is possible.

If not, then it’s only grandstanding.

PS: The original electrification was not done on the cheap - it was designed and installed to cope with four multiple unit trains per hour in each direction. It worked as designed very well until the number of electrically powered trains rose dramatically.

What I found interesting is how uninformed his main challenger in the mayoral race, Susan Hall, is on this. When the large over head line problems that affected the Elizabith line, Heathrow Express and GWR services she had to get a statement out. This was as follows:

Quote
Transport Secretary Mark Harper described it as a “serious incident”. Tory mayoral candidate Susan Hall called on Sadiq Khan, who is the TfL chair, to “make a full apology to those affected”.

“What happened on the Elizabeth line was undoubtedly distressing for thousands of passengers. I hope TfL gets to the bottom of how this happened, so it can ensure this never happens again.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-trains-travel-delays-suspended-overhead-wire-damage-b1125595.html

Well she appears to be suggesting that TFL (Transport for London) do something about the Network Rail wires and blaming TFL (and therefore Mr Khan as chairperson) for  them. Now I might know a bit more than your average commuter about this but that statement does just seem like uninformed political point scoring.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 22:11:44 by 1st fan » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2024, 18:08:41 »


I have. The article states

QUOTE
Between Monday and Thursday until March 28 there will be a reduced Elizabeth line service from Paddington from 9.30pm, with four trains an hour to Heathrow airport and two to Reading.
END QUOTE

This is neither very long - how much can be done in the next three weeks? - and only affects the stretch out to Maidenhead. Removing a couple of trains an hour to Heathrow and a couple of trains an hour to Maidenhead late at night is merely show business.


It all depends on what else has been cut out; for example are there any services starting / terminating at Reading, the removal of the semi fast to Didcot and Newbury. 

It will be about freeing up lines in between Paddington and Acton this will give more time to get the possession and isolation in place on some lines.   The process setting up and giving up possessions and isolations eats into the available time to do actual work, there are ways to speed it up but there are no short cuts in the process.

Oh, quite, I agree. But the subject was about Mayor Khan's implication that the only railway west of Paddington is the Elizabeth line, nowhere was any mention made that other operators use the Great Western Main Line as well. I repeat, his statement was simply show business.

I suspect he's concerning himself with his remit, although he seems to have catalysed something which will be to the benefit of all, in contrast there's been a deafening silence from the upper reaches of GWR (Great Western Railway).

GWR gain from what is called "schedule 8 payments"  this is a refund Network Rail makes to TOCs (Train Operating Company) for delays.  Of course it all goes to passengers "delay pay" and not toward the bubbly at the share holders meeting
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