Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
article index - [here]
 today - MRUG meet and chat
21/10/2019 - Ticket booking test - BRI
23/10/2019 - GWR Customer Panel, Cardiff
26/10/2019 - Railfuture Branches and Groups
26/10/2019 - Plym Valley / Lost Driver
27/10/2019 - Question deadline - MTMD
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
October 19, 2019, 08:55:01 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[301] Climate Change Emergency - Implications for UK Transport Strat...
[98] Changes to train times and to fares - Bedwyn and Pewsey to Lon...
[56] HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general dis...
[41] Could you give up flying? Meet the no-plane pioneers
[38] Realtime Trains
[23] Dilton Marsh - an update visit
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6
  Print  
Author Topic: Theoretical Design For A New DMU For Portsmouth-Cardiff Services  (Read 15584 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26755



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2019, 07:36:25 am »

About to do a spot of research.....

If you were to design a new-build unit for Portsmouth-Cardiff services, what features would it have, how many carriages, would it be based on a unit already in existence etc.



This thread of over a decade ago has popped up on one of my admin pages as being read again - and indeed it does make for interesting reading at the time that the Cardiff - Portsmouth trains are indeed in the process of growing from 3 to 5 carriages
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
Clan Line
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 305



View Profile
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2019, 11:53:02 am »

On that subject................what has happened to all the "extra seats" (albeit 5 abreast) we were promised on this route ??  Turbos seem to be as rare as hen's teeth nowadays.
Just had a look at Warminster CIS - of 7 Cardiff/Portsmouth trains shown, 6 are identified as having 3 coaches and only 1 as having 5 coaches !
Logged
rogerw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 751



View Profile
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2019, 02:02:18 pm »

1530 ex Cardiff was 5 coaches on Tuesday.  talking to the guard/conductor, he wasn't very happy about the fact that it is not possible to walk through the whole train and check tickets.  Needless to say that, being a turbo, there were no seat reservations or carriage letters
Logged

I like to travel.  It lets me feel I'm getting somewhere.
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5251


View Profile
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2019, 08:23:41 pm »

1530 ex Cardiff was 5 coaches on Tuesday.  talking to the guard/conductor, he wasn't very happy about the fact that it is not possible to walk through the whole train and check tickets.  Needless to say that, being a turbo, there were no seat reservations or carriage letters
Was never going to be an ideal solution having two separate trains with no walk through. If only there had been some spare 158’s to strengthen the existing GWR fleet operating the route but alas there isn’t.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26755



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2019, 09:30:14 pm »

On that subject................what has happened to all the "extra seats" (albeit 5 abreast) we were promised on this route ??  Turbos seem to be as rare as hen's teeth nowadays ...

Remember there are - what - 4 units still in the east which should have come across at the New Year when Newbury went electric - those on the Bedwyns which, however, haven't gone 80x because of the need for camera mods for DOO operation.    I do wonder, mind you, if 3 more 80x units were already in use on those services how many other services would be 5 carriages instead of 10.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5251


View Profile
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2019, 09:43:24 pm »

I do wonder, mind you, if 3 more 80x units were already in use on those services how many other services would be 5 carriages instead of 10.
Certainly does make you wonder  Roll Eyes
Logged
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 143


View Profile
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2019, 07:15:54 pm »

Part of me wonders whether it wouldn't be possible to convert some of the 5-car Hitachis to diesel/third rail and use them on the Portsmouth service. They'd be less bad there than on the Main Line.
Logged

Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2273


View Profile
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2019, 07:36:10 pm »

I thought all of GWR's Hitachis would run on diesel. Is range an issue?
Logged

Day return to Infinity, please.
Clan Line
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 305



View Profile
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2019, 10:00:44 pm »

Part of me wonders whether it wouldn't be possible to convert some of the 5-car Hitachis to diesel/third rail and use them on the Portsmouth service. They'd be less bad there than on the Main Line.

Not suitable - have only 4 abreast seating and adequate leg room !
Logged
MVR S&T
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 109


View Profile
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2019, 10:19:51 pm »

The most suitable modern cost effective train for Portsmouth to Cardiff, in my opinion is the Voyager class 220.
Then HSTs for the cross country Poole/Bournemouth to Manchester services.
But in the real world..
Logged
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7573


View Profile
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2019, 10:49:16 pm »

Not that it’s likely to happen, but would there be enough seats on a 4-car Voyager?
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2818



View Profile
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2019, 12:01:18 am »

5 car IETs should do.
Build some more 10 car (not 5+5) IETs, mechanically similar to and interchangeable with the present fleet but with a proper inter-city internal fit out.
Use these new inter-city IETs on the longer distance and more important GWR services, and transfer some of the existing 5 car units to Cardiff-Portsmouth.

My well known objections to IETs are not primarily on engineering or technical grounds, but are due to the downgraded passenger experience on routes previously operated by proper inter-city trains.

I have little objection to additional full length IETs being built with proper inter-city internal arrangements, and cascading the shorter and lower specification units to secondary routes.
New IETs should be more affordable than the first lot.
Maintenance should be simplified if the new units are mechanically like the existing fleet, differing only in internal fittings, equipment and layout.
One type of train from the driving P.O.V. simplifying training and rostering.
Already approved by the various regulatory agencies, unlike a new design.

Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26755



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2019, 12:14:36 am »

On stuff that's around - and a paper exercise - 172/2 and 172/3 units. Modern, 5 car, 2+2 seating, through gangway, 100 m.p.h., Centre carriage doors for faster intermediate loading / unloading.  In fact pretty much the stuff that was about to be ordered (or had been and was cancelled) when electrification of the inner services from Paddington was announced and the turbos became available.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2818



View Profile
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2019, 02:24:36 am »

1530 ex Cardiff was 5 coaches on Tuesday.  talking to the guard/conductor, he wasn't very happy about the fact that it is not possible to walk through the whole train and check tickets.  Needless to say that, being a turbo, there were no seat reservations or carriage letters
Was never going to be an ideal solution having two separate trains with no walk through. If only there had been some spare 158’s to strengthen the existing GWR fleet operating the route but alas there isn’t.

Yet elsewhere on the GWR network, two separate trains with no walk through have been recently introduced and touted as a great step forward.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Charlie (in Gloucester)
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 390


View Profile
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2019, 03:12:12 am »

5 car IETs should do.
Build some more 10 car (not 5+5) IETs, mechanically similar to and interchangeable with the present fleet but with a proper inter-city internal fit out.
Use these new inter-city IETs on the longer distance and more important GWR services, and transfer some of the existing 5 car units to Cardiff-Portsmouth.

My well known objections to IETs are not primarily on engineering or technical grounds, but are due to the downgraded passenger experience on routes previously operated by proper inter-city trains.

I have little objection to additional full length IETs being built with proper inter-city internal arrangements, and cascading the shorter and lower specification units to secondary routes.
New IETs should be more affordable than the first lot.
Maintenance should be simplified if the new units are mechanically like the existing fleet, differing only in internal fittings, equipment and layout.
One type of train from the driving P.O.V. simplifying training and rostering.
Already approved by the various regulatory agencies, unlike a new design.



And how will they be cheaper?
What you gonna say to Bristol/Cheltenham/Cotswolds people who need shorter trains to provide service change?
Who is going to pay for the “intercity internal arrangements” and will it provide seating capacity improvements?

Logged

We should be aiming towards a country where no matter where you are you can get around all day with an easy to use, affordable and modern transport system.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page