First Class full

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.

TaplowGreen: please note that none of us here on the Administrator / Moderator team on the Coffee Shop forum are railway staff - we have absolutely no remit to defend 'The Railways'.

We just want to see a good clean discussion of the facts of any situation, here on the forum, without it getting personal.

Chris from Nailsea. 

Duly noted.

I'm unclear as to how subjective speculation on the behaviours of those involved based on being in the public eye and/or calling into question the accuracy of their lived experiences in this context constitutes or adds to "facts", but there you go.

I am sure both Dame T G-T and Ms Frostrup have far bigger platforms they can utilise if they need to, and a fair amount of integrity in the Bank too. Perhaps the noble Lord Hendy took that into account when he apologised to the former after her recent humiliating experience.

[JayMac]

Any rebuke also for the personal attacks questioning the integrity of Mariella Frostrup and Tanni Grey-Thompson?

[a-driver]

I’m not going to name specific “celebrities” but train crew and those who work on the frontline in the industry know exactly who will cause issues on a train or station, those who are generally just plain rude and self entitled.  They’ll be informed one thing by crew and they’ll often claim something totally different has happened.  You’ll often find staff will be reluctant to do anything for these “celebrities” because whatever they do, it’ll be met by negativity.  I guess that’s not solely specific to rail either.

On the other side of the coin, they are “celebrities” who are just a pleasure to have onboard. Happy to chat, happy to have photos taken etc, no air of self importance whatsoever.

As for those public apologies, like with any of us who receive one from any company/organisation, do we ever think they are sincere or just an easy way of making an issue quickly disappear?

[ChrisB]

The digs at someone of the stature of Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson are particularly misplaced, especially given that even Hendy apologised for her experience.

Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.

Yes, I agree they are, providing they don't deliberately shit-stir against the railway & deliberately not tell the full story - 'Dame' Tanni is well aware of how the railway works (indeed, she wrote part of the accessibility policy) and if she books assistance in advance & then misses her service, advising the rail staff of this would have simplified her arrival at her destination. And then to cover that up when tweeting about it to get her supporters all riled up yet again.

That to me, loses any respect due.

[TaplowGreen]

The digs at someone of the stature of Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson are particularly misplaced, especially given that even Hendy apologised for her experience.

Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.

Yes, I agree they are, providing they don't deliberately shit-stir against the railway & deliberately not tell the full story - 'Dame' Tanni is well aware of how the railway works (indeed, she wrote part of the accessibility policy) and if she books assistance in advance & then misses her service, advising the rail staff of this would have simplified her arrival at her destination. And then to cover that up when tweeting about it to get her supporters all riled up yet again.

That to me, loses any respect due.

I know of no organisation or its supporters that aspires to even the slightest level of service improvement which is so quick to fold arms and circle the wagons as the railway. The answer above illustrates that perfectly.

Quality organisations treat feedback as a gift, a free way to get market research, assess areas which need improvement, and analyse failure points.

Here we have a culture of utter defensive ness,akin to something like the Church of Scientology, where any critic is treated with suspicion at best moving on to outright derision/calling their character into question.

No interest or attempt made to learn or improve, just try to shoot the messenger.

A minor cultural shift to appreciating that the role of the railways is to move people, as well as trains could make a huge difference.

What a shock there'd be for some if there was real competition.

[a-driver]

The digs at someone of the stature of Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson are particularly misplaced

Can I genuinely ask how you've arrived at the above? 

[ChrisB]

Quality organisations treat feedback as a gift, a free way to get market research, assess areas which need improvement, and analyse failure points.

Yup, complete agree. But let's concentrate on those areas that are *actual* failures, rather than fake ones, eh? There are plenty of actual failures that we don't need to make up others just for clicks sake.

No interest or attempt made to learn or improve, just try to shoot the messenger.

See above. also how dare you pass opinion when YOU have NO IDEA how much time I spend sitting on various accessibility panels as a wheelchair user myself, making serious suggestions on how to improve the accessibility policy of both rail & bus.
How's your effort then, TG? Done much lately or are you simply another keyboard warrior?

[Trowres]

Oh dear! 

Not sure why this topic, of many, has suffered rising acrimony. The views expressed all seem to be valid, even if seen from different viewpoints.

Two quotes from the thread:

No interest or attempt made to learn or improve, just try to shoot the messenger.

See above. also how dare you pass opinion when YOU have NO IDEA how much time I spend sitting on various accessibility panels as a wheelchair user myself, making serious suggestions on how to improve the accessibility policy of both rail & bus.
How's your effort then, TG? Done much lately or are you simply another keyboard warrior?

I know of no organisation or its supporters that aspires to even the slightest level of service improvement which is so quick to fold arms and circle the wagons as the railway...

From the first quote, I get the picture that much effort occurs behind the scenes... (but it isn't necessarily apparent to Joe Public as change is hard work and slow).

The second quote... I have to say I've seen this evident on another railway forum populated by a mixture of rail staff, enthusiasts and users.

What the railway seems to be very good at is producing reasons. There are reasons why you can't have a service improvement. There are reasons why seats are uncomfortable and you aren't guaranteed a view out of the window. There are reasons why the fare system is a self-parody of complexity. There are reasons why it takes five hours to rescue trains in too many circumstances. There are reasons why you need to be self-sufficient and composed, as you can't guarantee there'll be some staff around to help you when things don't work out.

My opinion is that the railway has ended up in this situation more by accident / unintended consequences than any deliberate act. If the reasons can't be tackled, one has to wonder whether or not the reasons for having the railway at all are still valid.

[ChrisB]

Once GBR^▸ (Great British Railways) gets its feet well & truly under the table, having only one organisation that needs to generate change should speed up those reasons why things could now move forward quicker