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Author Topic: 0635 Salisbury - Worcester Foregate Str thru Melksham keeps running late  (Read 5293 times)
matth1j
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« on: October 17, 2024, 11:22:01 »

Each of the 3 times I've caught it this week it has departed Salisbury on time at 0635, but has accumulated delays through Warminster, Westbury and Trowbridge to end up being at least 4 mins late by the time it reaches me at Melksham.

No, 4 mins isn't that bad, but it means I (and others) miss my unofficial connection at Chippenham, where its departure time of 0731 is 3 mins before the Paddington - Weston-super-Mare 0734 that I catch to Bristol, ideally. Missing that means hanging around Chippenham station for ~30 mins for the next 0809 Bristol service (the official connection).

I would normally expect to catch the 0734 at least 2 out of 3 times per week, and I think missing it 3 times in a row is a first.

Anyone know if there is anything going on that might explain this eg. engineering work?
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2024, 11:29:21 »

If it's losing time gradually, like it did this morning, then it could well be time of the year.  It's slippery and often takes a bit longer to accelerate this time of year, and also drivers are instructed to reduce speeds approaching red signals to 10mph, 200 metres away, rather than the usual 20mph. 

That all accumulates over the course of a whole trip, and I note that it only has 1 minute of recovery time on that near hour long section of the journey.
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matth1j
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2024, 11:37:51 »

Mmm ok, but this didn't happen last year (3 times in a row). Might just be chance of course.
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2024, 12:07:26 »

No, 4 mins isn't that bad, but it means I (and others) miss my unofficial connection at Chippenham, where its departure time of 0731 is 3 mins before the Paddington - Weston-super-Mare 0734 that I catch to Bristol, ideally. Missing that means hanging around Chippenham station for ~30 mins for the next 0809 Bristol service (the official connection).

I will go with "leaf slip season" ...

It is due to arrive at Chippenham at 07:30 - so you are supposed to have 4 minutes and it's a classic case that illustrates where just a delay that is ordinarily trivial becomes something serious.

Interestingly, when there were engineering works between Swindon and Gloucester, the Paddington to Weston-super-mare train made an extra call at Didcot, and as a result left Chippenham 2 minutes later at 07:36, becoming an official connection for those weeks.   That could not be a permanent change because there's a Paddington to Cheltenham Spa right behind it at Didcot, but there's no problem further west (not at Bathampton now onward) and it has a 12 minute wait at Temple Meads before going on to Weston.

I asked GWR (Great Western Railway) if the express could be timed to sit a minute or two less at Bristol, and a minute or 2 in platform 4 at Swindon and - well - they looked at me as if I had grown horns.  Apparently that would slow down the London to Bristol timing and be a very major degradation of service indeed, and cannot be done on a permanent basis.  Pity, because it would save Melksham to Bath (and Bristol) passengers 35 minutes on their official commute.   Perhaps that's the real reason for not doing it - the Delay/Repay claims?

« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 12:18:09 by grahame » Logged

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grahame
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2024, 12:26:43 »

For readers of this thread - if the train from Melksham is arriving into Chippenham a couple of minutes late, passengers in the know are watching out for the departing train to Bristol as they pull in ... and there is an almighty scramble across the platform to transfer if it's still there, before the doors get locked.   Can't be safe. In the interest of safety (good card to play  Cheesy ) could the Bristol train have one of those rare "hold" orders on it such that if the train coming up from Melksham has to cross in front of it anyway, it connects?   If the train from Melksham is so late that the Bristol train crosses first, fair enough.

P.S. The train from London leaves Reading - last stop before Swindon - before 7 a.m. - how busy is it that early in the morning with passengers travelling to Chippenham and beyond?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 13:32:33 by grahame » Logged

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matth1j
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2024, 13:04:13 »

Until moving to Melksham in 2016 I used to commute to Bath from Reading (Earley actually) 3 days a week, catching what was the 0726. And that was great; hardly anyone on it, until a load boarded at Chippenham. I suspect the pre-7 (the 0656 in my day) would be even quieter.

Only problem was I had to buy advance tickets a couple of months beforehand to bring the cost down from over £100 to something under £30 IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly). No digital option in those days so always had a pile of tickets waiting to used Smiley
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matth1j
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2024, 13:35:27 »

For readers of this thread - if the train from Melksham is arriving into Chippenham a couple of minutes late...
If the train does happen to depart Melksham on time, it's even more frustrating when it gets held up by the late running Bristol-Paddington service, due to depart Chippenham at 0726...
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grahame
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2024, 14:11:24 »

For readers of this thread - if the train from Melksham is arriving into Chippenham a couple of minutes late...
If the train does happen to depart Melksham on time, it's even more frustrating when it gets held up by the late running Bristol-Paddington service, due to depart Chippenham at 0726...

And it's that Paddington express which prevents it running earlier to increase the margin THAT way ... quite apart from it being threaded through Westbury!

edit to add Westbury comment
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 14:19:27 by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2024, 15:28:21 »

In the interest of safety (good card to play  Cheesy ) could the Bristol train have one of those rare "hold" orders on it such that if the train coming up from Melksham has to cross in front of it anyway, it connects?   If the train from Melksham is so late that the Bristol train crosses first, fair enough.

Might that minute or two extra delay potentially cause a safety problem at Bristol Temple Meads as passengers rush to try and make the unofficial connection towards Gloucester at 08:06?  Wink
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2024, 09:44:21 »

Reading Real Time Trains, the 4 minutes (so unofficial) connection missed again yesterday by between 30 and 45 seconds. The delay to the 06:35 from Salisbury was picked up in the short stretch from Westbury to Trowbridge - on a 7 minute schedule from arriving Westbury to leaving Trowbridge yesterday took 12.  It was back on time when it departed Swindon, but of course that's too late in its journey for the Chippenham connection.

The train that left Chippenham spot on time as the train from Melksham pulled in arrived a minute early into Bristol at 08:02.    The next train to Bristol from Chippenham arrived there at 08:39 - 3 minutes late.

Edit to correct - the words had not come out right this morning and the original was unclear and incomplete - my apologies to members who were trying to work out what I meant!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2024, 10:19:49 by grahame » Logged

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matth1j
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2024, 07:43:39 »

Typing this in Chippenham station waiting room... yep, late again. 6 minutes at Melksham, made some of that up I think so pulled into Chippenham just as the Bristol train was pulling out. Great Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2024, 08:30:18 »

Typing this in Chippenham station waiting room... yep, late again. 6 minutes at Melksham, made some of that up I think so pulled into Chippenham just as the Bristol train was pulling out. Great Roll Eyes

Oh dear ... please keep logging.  The Coffee Shop will not get any "official action" on this frustrating issue, but it does keep it bubbling along and we are read.   No promises of a result, but a promise to try further for a practical change.
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2024, 11:01:48 »

A question for our rail experts.   The standard interchange time between trains is 5 minutes but there are exceptions around - here's an example from a timetable showing a whole cluster of them.



Why?   Well - 10 minutes to change in Brighton makes sense. It's a big station and arriving from Lewes and leaving for Worthing is a bit of a walk around - it has to make sense.  On the other hand, Worthing and Chichester don't need as long, and it's amazingly short at Hove.

For Swindon, arriving on platform 4 and leaving on 2 and even the five minutes may be tight.  For Bath Spa, with long sets of steps or queues for the lifts, again it makes sense.  And both Trowbridge and Westbury can involve a change or platform too so you can sorta-get the logic.   But why on earth is it 5 minutes at Chippenham - an island platform when all changes are cross-platform, or to a following train on the same track? 
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Mark A
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2024, 12:05:10 »

No idea when Chippenham's other platforms were taken out of use, perhaps the 5 minutes dates from past times.

Mark
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matth1j
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2024, 07:47:12 »

No idea when Chippenham's other platforms were taken out of use
There used to be a line running to Calne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chippenham_and_Calne_line which the disused platform served.

Missed the connection again today; that's 5 times in a row now (for my commute). Doors on the 0734 Bristol train closed as we pulled in  Cry Probably would have been ok if we hadn't got held up behind the late running Paddington service.

Something a bit odd this morning - the Salisbury-Worcester train departed on time, and was only a minute late when I caught it at Melksham. But by then the National Rail app was saying 'This train has been delayed by train crew being delayed'  Huh
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