Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 09:35 11 Dec 2024
 
- Avanti West Coast workers to strike over Christmas
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - Westbury - Meet the Manager
15/12/24 - New Timetable Starts
19/12/24 - MTUG Committee Plus meeting
25/12/24 - Westbury Station Closure

No 'On This Day' events reported for 11th Dec

Train RunningCancelled
14:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
14:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
Short Run
07:33 Weymouth to Gloucester
08:03 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth
09:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
11:29 Weymouth to Gloucester
12:42 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
15:28 Weymouth to Gloucester
15:50 Penzance to Gloucester
16:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare
17:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
17:59 Cardiff Central to Penzance
18:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Severn Beach
Delayed
08:40 Gloucester to Bristol Temple Meads
09:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 11, 2024, 09:47:22 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[90] AQ10 - Where are these and what is the connection / Theme?
[88] David Clarke's Amazing 1930s GWR Model Railway, 38ft,16ft 6in
[86] NOT.......Britannia !!
[53] AQ11 - trivia questions in our region
[52] Closures of loops and through services - on this day, 10th Dec...
[49] Westbury - engineering works from 24th December 2024 for 30 da...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: 0635 Salisbury - Worcester Foregate Str thru Melksham keeps running late  (Read 5296 times)
matth1j
Full Member
***
Posts: 73


View Profile
« on: October 17, 2024, 11:22:01 »

Each of the 3 times I've caught it this week it has departed Salisbury on time at 0635, but has accumulated delays through Warminster, Westbury and Trowbridge to end up being at least 4 mins late by the time it reaches me at Melksham.

No, 4 mins isn't that bad, but it means I (and others) miss my unofficial connection at Chippenham, where its departure time of 0731 is 3 mins before the Paddington - Weston-super-Mare 0734 that I catch to Bristol, ideally. Missing that means hanging around Chippenham station for ~30 mins for the next 0809 Bristol service (the official connection).

I would normally expect to catch the 0734 at least 2 out of 3 times per week, and I think missing it 3 times in a row is a first.

Anyone know if there is anything going on that might explain this eg. engineering work?
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10341


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2024, 11:29:21 »

If it's losing time gradually, like it did this morning, then it could well be time of the year.  It's slippery and often takes a bit longer to accelerate this time of year, and also drivers are instructed to reduce speeds approaching red signals to 10mph, 200 metres away, rather than the usual 20mph. 

That all accumulates over the course of a whole trip, and I note that it only has 1 minute of recovery time on that near hour long section of the journey.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
matth1j
Full Member
***
Posts: 73


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2024, 11:37:51 »

Mmm ok, but this didn't happen last year (3 times in a row). Might just be chance of course.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42837



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2024, 12:07:26 »

No, 4 mins isn't that bad, but it means I (and others) miss my unofficial connection at Chippenham, where its departure time of 0731 is 3 mins before the Paddington - Weston-super-Mare 0734 that I catch to Bristol, ideally. Missing that means hanging around Chippenham station for ~30 mins for the next 0809 Bristol service (the official connection).

I will go with "leaf slip season" ...

It is due to arrive at Chippenham at 07:30 - so you are supposed to have 4 minutes and it's a classic case that illustrates where just a delay that is ordinarily trivial becomes something serious.

Interestingly, when there were engineering works between Swindon and Gloucester, the Paddington to Weston-super-mare train made an extra call at Didcot, and as a result left Chippenham 2 minutes later at 07:36, becoming an official connection for those weeks.   That could not be a permanent change because there's a Paddington to Cheltenham Spa right behind it at Didcot, but there's no problem further west (not at Bathampton now onward) and it has a 12 minute wait at Temple Meads before going on to Weston.

I asked GWR (Great Western Railway) if the express could be timed to sit a minute or two less at Bristol, and a minute or 2 in platform 4 at Swindon and - well - they looked at me as if I had grown horns.  Apparently that would slow down the London to Bristol timing and be a very major degradation of service indeed, and cannot be done on a permanent basis.  Pity, because it would save Melksham to Bath (and Bristol) passengers 35 minutes on their official commute.   Perhaps that's the real reason for not doing it - the Delay/Repay claims?

« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 12:18:09 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42837



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2024, 12:26:43 »

For readers of this thread - if the train from Melksham is arriving into Chippenham a couple of minutes late, passengers in the know are watching out for the departing train to Bristol as they pull in ... and there is an almighty scramble across the platform to transfer if it's still there, before the doors get locked.   Can't be safe. In the interest of safety (good card to play  Cheesy ) could the Bristol train have one of those rare "hold" orders on it such that if the train coming up from Melksham has to cross in front of it anyway, it connects?   If the train from Melksham is so late that the Bristol train crosses first, fair enough.

P.S. The train from London leaves Reading - last stop before Swindon - before 7 a.m. - how busy is it that early in the morning with passengers travelling to Chippenham and beyond?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 13:32:33 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
matth1j
Full Member
***
Posts: 73


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2024, 13:04:13 »

Until moving to Melksham in 2016 I used to commute to Bath from Reading (Earley actually) 3 days a week, catching what was the 0726. And that was great; hardly anyone on it, until a load boarded at Chippenham. I suspect the pre-7 (the 0656 in my day) would be even quieter.

Only problem was I had to buy advance tickets a couple of months beforehand to bring the cost down from over £100 to something under £30 IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly). No digital option in those days so always had a pile of tickets waiting to used Smiley
Logged
matth1j
Full Member
***
Posts: 73


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2024, 13:35:27 »

For readers of this thread - if the train from Melksham is arriving into Chippenham a couple of minutes late...
If the train does happen to depart Melksham on time, it's even more frustrating when it gets held up by the late running Bristol-Paddington service, due to depart Chippenham at 0726...
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42837



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2024, 14:11:24 »

For readers of this thread - if the train from Melksham is arriving into Chippenham a couple of minutes late...
If the train does happen to depart Melksham on time, it's even more frustrating when it gets held up by the late running Bristol-Paddington service, due to depart Chippenham at 0726...

And it's that Paddington express which prevents it running earlier to increase the margin THAT way ... quite apart from it being threaded through Westbury!

edit to add Westbury comment
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 14:19:27 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10341


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2024, 15:28:21 »

In the interest of safety (good card to play  Cheesy ) could the Bristol train have one of those rare "hold" orders on it such that if the train coming up from Melksham has to cross in front of it anyway, it connects?   If the train from Melksham is so late that the Bristol train crosses first, fair enough.

Might that minute or two extra delay potentially cause a safety problem at Bristol Temple Meads as passengers rush to try and make the unofficial connection towards Gloucester at 08:06?  Wink
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42837



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2024, 09:44:21 »

Reading Real Time Trains, the 4 minutes (so unofficial) connection missed again yesterday by between 30 and 45 seconds. The delay to the 06:35 from Salisbury was picked up in the short stretch from Westbury to Trowbridge - on a 7 minute schedule from arriving Westbury to leaving Trowbridge yesterday took 12.  It was back on time when it departed Swindon, but of course that's too late in its journey for the Chippenham connection.

The train that left Chippenham spot on time as the train from Melksham pulled in arrived a minute early into Bristol at 08:02.    The next train to Bristol from Chippenham arrived there at 08:39 - 3 minutes late.

Edit to correct - the words had not come out right this morning and the original was unclear and incomplete - my apologies to members who were trying to work out what I meant!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2024, 10:19:49 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
matth1j
Full Member
***
Posts: 73


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2024, 07:43:39 »

Typing this in Chippenham station waiting room... yep, late again. 6 minutes at Melksham, made some of that up I think so pulled into Chippenham just as the Bristol train was pulling out. Great Roll Eyes
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42837



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2024, 08:30:18 »

Typing this in Chippenham station waiting room... yep, late again. 6 minutes at Melksham, made some of that up I think so pulled into Chippenham just as the Bristol train was pulling out. Great Roll Eyes

Oh dear ... please keep logging.  The Coffee Shop will not get any "official action" on this frustrating issue, but it does keep it bubbling along and we are read.   No promises of a result, but a promise to try further for a practical change.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 42837



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2024, 11:01:48 »

A question for our rail experts.   The standard interchange time between trains is 5 minutes but there are exceptions around - here's an example from a timetable showing a whole cluster of them.



Why?   Well - 10 minutes to change in Brighton makes sense. It's a big station and arriving from Lewes and leaving for Worthing is a bit of a walk around - it has to make sense.  On the other hand, Worthing and Chichester don't need as long, and it's amazingly short at Hove.

For Swindon, arriving on platform 4 and leaving on 2 and even the five minutes may be tight.  For Bath Spa, with long sets of steps or queues for the lifts, again it makes sense.  And both Trowbridge and Westbury can involve a change or platform too so you can sorta-get the logic.   But why on earth is it 5 minutes at Chippenham - an island platform when all changes are cross-platform, or to a following train on the same track? 
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1761


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2024, 12:05:10 »

No idea when Chippenham's other platforms were taken out of use, perhaps the 5 minutes dates from past times.

Mark
Logged
matth1j
Full Member
***
Posts: 73


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2024, 07:47:12 »

No idea when Chippenham's other platforms were taken out of use
There used to be a line running to Calne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chippenham_and_Calne_line which the disused platform served.

Missed the connection again today; that's 5 times in a row now (for my commute). Doors on the 0734 Bristol train closed as we pulled in  Cry Probably would have been ok if we hadn't got held up behind the late running Paddington service.

Something a bit odd this morning - the Salisbury-Worcester train departed on time, and was only a minute late when I caught it at Melksham. But by then the National Rail app was saying 'This train has been delayed by train crew being delayed'  Huh
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page