Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 18:15 11 Dec 2024
 
- Russian ships move from Syria base amid doubts over future
- Christmas train travel could be hit by staff shortages
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - Westbury - Meet the Manager
15/12/24 - New Timetable Starts
19/12/24 - MTUG Committee Plus meeting
25/12/24 - Westbury Station Closure

No 'On This Day' events reported for 11th Dec

Train RunningCancelled
21:11 Gloucester to Bristol Temple Meads
Short Run
15:28 Weymouth to Gloucester
15:50 Penzance to Gloucester
20:24 Exmouth to Cardiff Central
21:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 11, 2024, 18:24:43 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[283] Braunton.............again
[128] Cycle jam in China, breakfast dumplings, wild haggis shooting,...
[61] BTH - Bristol Parkway - Swindon - BTH day return - best ticket...
[56] AQ11 - trivia questions in our region
[49] Welcoming RogerW to the moderator team at the Coffee Shop
[46] Upgraded cycle route in Plymouth
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Mining in Cornwall  (Read 6420 times)
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6586


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« on: October 31, 2024, 15:58:43 »

Given that Cornwall is the county that in some ways gave the world hard rock engineering & mining, it's surprising that an underpass wasn't a contender for that one. Heights there are somewhat in favour and its something that would have offered a straightforward high throughput walking route between the new down side car park and the bay platform.

Mark

I can tell you that an underpass was seriously considered but ruled out quite a long time ago now. 

As a former (long time back) tin miner, I consider another worry would have been stopping the digging if evidence of copper, tin or worst of all lithium had been found.
Logged

Now, please!
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1766


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2024, 18:19:41 »

This put me in mind of the sight of that mineshaft, informally capped with lengths of old rail line, nestling close alongside one of the piers of the viaduct at Barrepta Cove.

Mark
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6586


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2024, 19:01:00 »

Haha! The first self-funding underpass.

Mark

380 fathoms deep...
Logged

Now, please!
Oxonhutch
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1326



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2024, 20:06:03 »

380 fathoms deep...

Yes old mines used to measure themselves in fathoms. One I worked on, (1.5 miles down: 1320 fathoms)) spanned the metrication change-over, and the older production figures were quoted in square fathoms. I imagined this to be 6 foot by 6 foot, but no: it was a square yard! Three squared is not 3 + 3 Undecided
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6586


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2024, 17:26:38 »

380 fathoms deep...

Yes old mines used to measure themselves in fathoms. One I worked on, (1.5 miles down: 1320 fathoms)) spanned the metrication change-over, and the older production figures were quoted in square fathoms. I imagined this to be 6 foot by 6 foot, but no: it was a square yard! Three squared is not 3 + 3 Undecided

Levels at South Crofty were still fathoms when I was there, the ones still in use being from 212 to 380 at the time. It seems the levels continued to as low as 470 fathoms after that, until closure in 1998. The mine is in the process of being reopened. I still have my helmet (issued 1974) but will not be asking for my job back.
Logged

Now, please!
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 18951


Justice for Cerys Piper and Theo Griffiths please!


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2024, 17:57:49 »

Well done, both of you: I couldn't have coped with that - claustrophobia.  Roll Eyes

Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6586


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2024, 20:26:43 »

Well done, both of you: I couldn't have coped with that - claustrophobia.  Roll Eyes



Most of the underground workings were reasonably spacious apart from anything newly drilled and blasted - I'm over 6' (or one fathom if measured from top down), but seldom had to stoop. The stopes were wide enough for a railway, battery powered apart from the very lowest level, which was diesel. On afternoon shifts, I used to drive the electric locos back to the cage for return to surface for a change of batteries and deliver them back where I had found them - if I could remember where that was. I believe that dumper trucks will be used instead of rail when the mine reopens. I found some pictures in a local news report - this would definitely add interest to St Erth station.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2024, 19:45:11 by TonyK » Logged

Now, please!
Oxonhutch
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1326



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2024, 21:49:02 »

Well done, both of you: I couldn't have coped with that - claustrophobia.  Roll Eyes

Most of the underground workings were reasonably spacious apart from anything newly drilled and blasted - I'm over 6', but seldom had to stoop.

Like TonyK, I never had to stoop so had no feeling of ill-ease on my job. I used to travel further to work than my father - and he travelled horizontally.

Invited down the father-in-law's coal mine, on the other hand, was a different kettle of fish. Slithering along the 2 foot high muddy stope like a serpent, I felt the weight of the mountain pressing upon my back - I think he had sent me to the thinnest coalseam on the pit!

I had to lie on my back in the warm slime and close my eyes - and breathe steadily - to regain my composure. If you drive a steam engine, think of the poor b****r digging your fuel!!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 21:54:33 by Oxonhutch » Logged
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 558


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2024, 16:10:57 »

380 fathoms deep...

Yes old mines used to measure themselves in fathoms. One I worked on, (1.5 miles down: 1320 fathoms)) spanned the metrication change-over, and the older production figures were quoted in square fathoms. I imagined this to be 6 foot by 6 foot, but no: it was a square yard! Three squared is not 3 + 3 Undecided

At the risk of being pedantic, is it not four square yards or 36 square feet?
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6586


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2024, 17:43:25 »


Yes old mines used to measure themselves in fathoms. One I worked on, (1.5 miles down: 1320 fathoms)) spanned the metrication change-over, and the older production figures were quoted in square fathoms. I imagined this to be 6 foot by 6 foot, but no: it was a square yard! Three squared is not 3 + 3 Undecided

At the risk of being pedantic, is it not four square yards or 36 square feet?

One of the mine captains gave me a requisition chit for "Oylskin jaquette", and another gave up on trying to spell "corrugated" and ordered "wiggly steel" instead. Either could look at a blank wall or rock at the end of a level in the mine and tell you instantly how long it would take to drill, how much explosive would be needed, how much rock would result and so on, and if I ever found myself stuck on Bodmin Moor in bad weather, I would rather have one of them with me than my accountant. Ask them about a square fathom, though, and my guess is they would use an obscure Cornish expression not usually heard in polite company, then get on with something else.
Logged

Now, please!
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7349


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2024, 18:17:51 »

380 fathoms deep...

Yes old mines used to measure themselves in fathoms. One I worked on, (1.5 miles down: 1320 fathoms)) spanned the metrication change-over, and the older production figures were quoted in square fathoms. I imagined this to be 6 foot by 6 foot, but no: it was a square yard! Three squared is not 3 + 3 Undecided

At the risk of being pedantic, is it not four square yards or 36 square feet?

I fear it's worse than that - and that a square fathom is in fact a volume measure: 8 cubic yards. After all, isn't a cube a square sort of thing?
Logged
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1766


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2024, 18:41:58 »

Well done, both of you: I couldn't have coped with that - claustrophobia.  Roll Eyes



Most of the underground workings were reasonably spacious apart from anything newly drilled and blasted - I'm over 6', but seldom had to stoop. The stopes were wide enough for a railway, battery powered apart from the very lowest level, which was diesel. On afternoon shifts, I used to drive the electric locos back to the cage for return to surface for a change of batteries and deliver them back where I had found them - if I could remember where that was. I believe that dumper trucks will be used instead of rail when the mine reopens. I found some pictures in a local news report - this would definitely add interest to St Erth station.



Thanks for the link to the photos. I was lucky enough to go on an underground tour of Geevor, though in sad circumstances as the mine was selling underground tours in an unsuccessful attempt to raise money to keep the pumps running. Much to see, and a strong sense, underground, of the warmth and the sense of space (plenty of headroom helped with that, and the rock was very competent, there was no sense of vast weights of strata needing to be handled carefully...)

Mark
Logged
Oxonhutch
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1326



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2024, 20:21:27 »

At the risk of being pedantic, is it not four square yards or 36 square feet?

Indeed! I am as pedantic as you in this matter hence my disquiet at the inappropriate terminology used to describe the actual unit of area.  To address Stuving's comments: my mine was a gold mine in old sedimentary rocks, with gold bearing 'reefs' of variable thickness.  Mining contracts (that determine pay) were on the basis of area irrespective of thickness.

The metric 'contract' unit was the centare - one hundredth of an are (pronounced 'air' - it being 10 by 10 metres or 100 square metres): i.e. one centare being one square metre. The hectare of today's field measurements being a hundred ares, or 10,000 square metres.

Now, I had inherited a mine publication on imperial to metric conversions dating from the early 1970s. There it gave the area conversion from square fathoms to centares. The square fathom turned to to be smaller than the square metre (centare) and a calculator showed that irrespective of what the unit was called, it was in fact a square yard. I reckon the miners of old took 3 x 3 feet to be 3 and 3 - hence six - and therefore a square fathom. Bit like an "Oylskin jaquette".
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7349


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2024, 23:49:37 »

I take it the source of this usage was the need to measure how much material had been mined, for estimating the amounts of useful ore and recovered metal, and also for workers' payments. For that, you multiply the width worked by the distance, and they might customarily both be in fathoms. To get a true volume you would multiply by the height of the working as well, but that's not going to vary so was left out. As it happens, for a lot of mines this height is about six feet! From the comments above that was so in Cornish mines, and I think in South Africa too. If you cut a greater height than that you just didn't get paid for doing it, but that's your problem.

While other meanings may have come in more recently, here's an older example. In reports of the flooding at Porkellis United Mines on 24th August 1858, I found the volume of water and "slime and refuse from the stamps" that entered the mine given in square fathoms. Here, a real volume is called for, and there is no obvious value of working height to assume. And the number given does look very like length x breadth x depth in fathoms.

If you want an even bigger puzzle, I have come across a few references to square cubic fathoms ...
Logged
Mark A
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1766


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2024, 08:09:58 »

I'd forgotten the length of a fathom. Reminded of it by the discovery that the name comes from an old word meaning 'Outstretched arms'.

Mark
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page