Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 08:15 04 Dec 2024
 
* Three rail firms to be renationalised next year
- 'Deeply disturbed': South Koreans react to President Yoon's martial law order
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 07/12/24 - Christmas Lights MTUG
15/12/24 - New Timetable Starts
19/12/24 - MTUG Committee Plus meeting
25/12/24 - Westbury Station Closure

On this day
4th Dec (1898)
Theft of Chocolate at Melksham Station (link)

Train RunningCancelled
07:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading
07:28 Banbury to Didcot Parkway
07:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
08:07 Didcot Parkway to Oxford
08:34 Didcot Parkway to Banbury
20:56 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads
21:46 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach
22:40 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads
Short Run
07:34 Redhill to Reading
08:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
13:28 Weymouth to Gloucester
13:50 London Paddington to Great Malvern
16:32 Great Malvern to London Paddington
18:10 Taunton to Cardiff Central
20:24 Exmouth to Cardiff Central
20:52 London Paddington to Great Malvern
21:53 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 04, 2024, 08:27:45 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[123] Northumberland Line to open on Sun 15 December
[119] Louise Haigh, Transport Secretary until 28 Nov 2024
[106] AQ03 - what do these groups have in common
[76] CrossCountry upgrade will see 25% more rail seats
[58] Cyclists - death toll on our roads
[38] The Magic Roundabout
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Total signalling and control systems failure on the Elizabeth Line 26/11/24  (Read 523 times)
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7342


View Profile
« on: November 27, 2024, 10:54:41 »

TfL» (Transport for London - about) have been rather quiet about why there was no service at all on the core of the Elizabeth Line yesterday, nor today. The eastern end has been running from Liverpool Street, and only a few at the western end from Paddington. IanVisits has a brief statement from TfL which some of you may find familiar...
Quote
The Elizabeth line is suffering its second day of a major signalling outage which has shut down the core section of the railway.

There is no service between Abbey Wood and Paddington through the new tunnel section, and there are severe delays on the rest of the line, which runs over existing National Rail surface tracks.

The problem is due to a signalling fault on the line which was caused by overnight maintenance on Monday night, which knocked out the service on Tuesday morning and is still affecting it on Wednesday. The central core uses a newer signalling system (CBTC (Communications-based train control)) compared to the older systems used on the National Rail sections (TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System)/ETCS (European Train Control System)). The outage has affected the CBTC system, supplied by Siemens Mobility, and one source has described it as “the worst signalling failure they’ve ever seen”.

The outage is having severe knock-on effects on the rest of the public transport network, as thousands of people who have migrated to using the Elizabeth line have to squeeze onto overloaded tube and rail services. The DLR (Docklands Light Railway) between Woolwich and Canary Wharf is packed, and the Jubilee and Central lines are straining with demand.

At the moment, the focus is on fixing the problem. Every significant problem on the railway is written up afterwards and outlines what went wrong and how it was dealt with, and may be released later.

Howard Smith, Director of the Elizabeth line said: “We apologise to customers for the disruption on the Elizabeth line. We are continuing to work with Siemens, our signalling supplier, to resolve issues that resulted from overnight maintenance of the system.

“We advise customers to plan ahead, allow extra time for their journeys, and check before they travel using our website or the TfL Go app.”

Adding to the problems this morning, the Circle line has also been suspended, while the District and Hammersmith and City lines are suffering delays.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7342


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2024, 12:38:40 »

That was quick! Just as I was writing that, the first train go get through the core set out from Paddington. Service is still recovering, i.e. about half the trains run.
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4483


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2024, 13:02:26 »

This morning at Paddington the Circle & District platforms and the Bakerloo were closed with LFB attendance at the Circle & District Parade At entrance, I walked to Lancaster Gate saw the queue turned around and caught a train home for Paddington.     

TfL» (Transport for London - about) seemed to have a meltdown this morning.

One of the key things in Thameslink core is the redundancy of the signalling system, there is the ATO (Automatic Train Operation) (automatic train operation) in cab signalling system, if this fails there is the conventional lineside signalling system with track circuits and if this fails there are PoSA (Proceed on Sight Authority) system.  Obviously the Elizabeth Line does not have a back up system
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
Ralph Ayres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 396


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2024, 13:58:08 »

One of the key things in Thameslink core is the redundancy of the signalling system, there is the ATO (Automatic Train Operation) (automatic train operation) in cab signalling system, if this fails there is the conventional lineside signalling system with track circuits and if this fails there are PoSA (Proceed on Sight Authority) system.  Obviously the Elizabeth Line does not have a back up system

I suspect the high level of usage of the Lizzie is such that any attempt to keep carrying passengers while relying on any back-up system would lead to such extreme overcrowding with the reduced level of service it would allow that it would be worse than useless. Better to use any back-up mode/rule to get everyone safely off the trains and then concentrate on fixing the problem.  The problem affected the entire central core rather than say just a detector at one specific location which might just about have allowed a work-around.
Logged
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 307


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2024, 14:55:22 »

This morning at Paddington the Circle & District platforms and the Bakerloo were closed with LFB attendance at the Circle & District Parade At entrance, I walked to Lancaster Gate saw the queue turned around and caught a train home for Paddington.
Sounds like a good day for me to have been running early/being lazy – I went for the number 205 bus to Paddington, rather than walking to Euston Square for the Underground.
Logged

Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4483


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2024, 17:55:06 »

One of the key things in Thameslink core is the redundancy of the signalling system, there is the ATO (Automatic Train Operation) (automatic train operation) in cab signalling system, if this fails there is the conventional lineside signalling system with track circuits and if this fails there are PoSA (Proceed on Sight Authority) system.  Obviously the Elizabeth Line does not have a back up system

I suspect the high level of usage of the Lizzie is such that any attempt to keep carrying passengers while relying on any back-up system would lead to such extreme overcrowding with the reduced level of service it would allow that it would be worse than useless. Better to use any back-up mode/rule to get everyone safely off the trains and then concentrate on fixing the problem.  The problem affected the entire central core rather than say just a detector at one specific location which might just about have allowed a work-around.

Thameslink core is designed for 24tph with far more in the way divers routes north and south of the core. Running under PoSA it can still manage 16tph.  I still find it strange there is not second system on the Elizabeth line
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page