Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About
Waterloo Campaign
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 10:55 29 Jun 2022
- Shapps: Rail strikes 'could be easily settled'
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 16/07/22 - Railfuture AGM, Bristol
23/07/22 - 100 years / Hythe Pier
20/08/22 - Imber Bus
20/08/22 - Imber bus day

On this day
29th Jun (1898)
First through passenger train leaves St Johns for Port-aux-Basques

Train RunningShort Run
10:59 Great Malvern to London Paddington
Delayed
10:04 Reading to Gatwick Airport
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
June 29, 2022, 10:58:57 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[53] South Western Railways Waterloo - Bristol services axed
[49] DfT rejects extra passing loop projects
[46] Problems with IET trains from April 2021
[41] 2022 - TransWilts cancellations and amendments log
[37] FlexiSeasons - a year on?
[36] Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 30
  Print  
Author Topic: Dawlish Avoiding Line - ongoing discussion, merged topic  (Read 152131 times)
chaulender
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 10


View Profile
« Reply #240 on: March 03, 2014, 08:37:09 pm »

Why so much focus on the journey time?  In relation to its role as a diversion line, surely whether Plymouth-Tavistock-Exeter takes 60m, 90m, or 120m is not that relevant.  What is relevant is that a Plymouth-Exeter journey can be made by rail at all.  I don't think anyone is suggesting it becomes the primary rail route from Plymouth to Exeter.

Unlike the other options, the old Southern route has (in  addition to the 'diversionary' role) an extra big advantage of providing rail access to a large area currently not served by rail (albeit a low population density area).

When costing the re-instatement of the old Southern route, regard should be taken of the fact that funding of the Bere Alston - Tavistock section  is already planned so the incremental costs are only of the Tavistock to Meldon section (plus any costs relating to increased line capacity outside that section)
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18111



View Profile
« Reply #241 on: March 03, 2014, 08:39:50 pm »

Build a DAL and no one (excepting Dawlish and Teignmouth); not Plymouth, not Cornwall, not Totnes, not Torbay would need bus replacements.

Oh, and an avoiding line also ticks the 'journey time improvement' box which should please the vocal lot in Plymouth.  Wink

I appear to be a lone voice sticking up for the South Hams and Torbay.  Sad

No you're not, I'm with you on this.

Cheers John.  Grin
Logged

http://www.templecombevillage.uk/station.html

There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist. - Sir Terry Pratchett
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #242 on: March 03, 2014, 08:57:07 pm »

Why so much focus on the journey time?  In relation to its role as a diversion line, surely whether Plymouth-Tavistock-Exeter takes 60m, 90m, or 120m is not that relevant.  What is relevant is that a Plymouth-Exeter journey can be made by rail at all.  I don't think anyone is suggesting it becomes the primary rail route from Plymouth to Exeter.


But if you are going to spend a couple of hundred million on some sort of avoiding line, why not build one which can be used day in day out to provide a faster service to Torbay, Plymouth and Cornwall?  Yes, it would probably cost more, but I suspect the additional cost, when compared with the additional benefits would be cost justified.
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4176


View Profile
« Reply #243 on: March 03, 2014, 09:46:05 pm »

I appear to be a lone voice sticking up for the South Hams and Torbay.  Sad

I hope not and I am sure those doing the study will be noting the following:

1) If a line is just a diversion it will be slow because there would be little justification for the expense of making it fast
2) There is no justification for a full diversion of the main line via Okehampton because:
     a) The population of that part of North Devon is tiny compared to Torbay and South Hams
     b) There would be a need to reverse at Exeter and (for ongoing trains to Cornwall) also at Plymouth
3) A short diversion round Dawlish would reduce journey times and still serve Torbay and South Hams
4) The existing line would have to retained in both options so there is no saving to either.
5) A local service to Okehampton from Exeter and one to Tavistock from Plymouth would provide a service to these sparsely populated areas at less cost
Logged
exeterkiwi
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 22


View Profile
« Reply #244 on: March 03, 2014, 10:50:24 pm »

Could the Okehampton to Exeter line be part of the Devon Metro if this option was not chosen

Guy
Logged
RichardB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 861


View Profile
« Reply #245 on: March 03, 2014, 11:57:00 pm »

No-one but no-one is wanting to do down the South Hams and Torbay, but the biggest thing is if anyone west of Exeter will get any additional diversionary route at all.

Any of the Dawlish avoiding lines, even the one planned in the late 30s, would be a completely new railway, needing to be planned from scratch and involving some element of tunnelling.  The cost could be huge.

The one big plus about the Okehampton route is that it is largely there, either still as a railway, as a cycleway or simply as trackbed with few obstructions.  If the will was there, it could be rebuilt and reopened quite quickly and at not massive expense(despite what Network Rail are saying now).

We'll see what the studies say.  Bottom line for me is that we get one of the additional routes - if a Dawlish avoiding line works out best, great.  If not, then Okehampton.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:02:37 am by RichardB » Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10999


View Profile Email
« Reply #246 on: March 04, 2014, 09:35:21 am »

I am too.....I can't see the mouths in PLY» (Plymouth - next trains) putting their money where there mouths are....
Logged
Andy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 533



View Profile
« Reply #247 on: March 04, 2014, 01:39:42 pm »

No-one but no-one is wanting to do down the South Hams and Torbay, but the biggest thing is if anyone west of Exeter will get any additional diversionary route at all.

Any of the Dawlish avoiding lines, even the one planned in the late 30s, would be a completely new railway, needing to be planned from scratch and involving some element of tunnelling.  The cost could be huge.

The one big plus about the Okehampton route is that it is largely there, either still as a railway, as a cycleway or simply as trackbed with few obstructions.  If the will was there, it could be rebuilt and reopened quite quickly and at not massive expense(despite what Network Rail are saying now).

We'll see what the studies say.  Bottom line for me is that we get one of the additional routes - if a Dawlish avoiding line works out best, great.  If not, then Okehampton.


Yes. What the SW needs is two routes to Plymouth, one main route (the repaired sea wall for the time being) and one additional one (Okehampton). If/when the sea wall route looks as if it's set to crumble into the sea, a DAL must replace it. In the meantime, two lines are there to act as diversionary routes for each other and reinstating the Dartmoor route between Tavistock & Okehampton opens up the potential for new traffic with the possibilities of journeys from Plymouth to Okehampton/Tavistock and Tavistock/Okehampton to Exeter.
Logged
Dark Star
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 22


View Profile
« Reply #248 on: March 16, 2014, 11:26:26 am »

Hopefully The Dawlish line will reopen in about two weeks, that's 2 months it's been closed, ^20million a day lost in the West Devon and Cornwall.

And the Weakest Part of the Modern railway is that it JUST CAN'T work together to make a big publicity issue out of the line reopening.

How about a Steam Train making several Exeter to Newton Abbot journeys the Weekend the line opens?Huh? Cool

Never Happen FGW (First Great Western) couldn't arrange anything!!!!   Angry

Of course it's very very generous of FGW that FGW engineers are working 24/7 rebuilding the storm damaged railway, (as per their radio ad's),
Hope Network Rail send FGW the repair bill.  Grin
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10999


View Profile Email
« Reply #249 on: March 16, 2014, 11:42:30 am »

Pardon?

IF the West's economy is losing that amount - and others in business have said it's only ^2million/day - shouldn't it be the West's businesses putting on what you suggest? It's no fault of any TOC (Train Operating Company), nor NR» (Network Rail - home page), but an act of God (the weather, that is) that has caused this problem - why should it JUST be down to FGW (First Great Western)/NR?
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5139


View Profile
« Reply #250 on: March 16, 2014, 11:44:45 am »

... that's 2 months it's been closed, ^20million a day lost in the West Devon and Cornwall.

Really?   Or is that one of those 'finger in the air' estimates that will turn out to have been nothing of the sort?  

Paul
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10999


View Profile Email
« Reply #251 on: March 16, 2014, 11:47:47 am »

Might be that sort of money in the height of the summer season - but in deepest February with the weather at its worst? - sorry, it's just a finger in the sky figure, agreed.

West Country business have an inflated idea of the amount of GDP they produce. Need to get of their high horse and produce a sensible report with facts, not just conjecture.
Logged
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9106



View Profile
« Reply #252 on: March 16, 2014, 01:05:51 pm »

I have no idea of the figures involved across the whole South West economy, but hotels in the Teignmouth and Dawlish areas are reported to have been booked up en masse for Network rail workers and their contractors working on the repairs.  I suspect, with the possible exception of the half term week, they would not have been anything like full otherwise.
Logged
onthecushions
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 928


View Profile
« Reply #253 on: March 17, 2014, 07:30:13 pm »


Just a caution for those thinking (rightly) that a re-opened Okehampton route could be cheap/simple/quick.

The 7.5 miles of reinstatement of Uckfield - Lewes was costed by NR» (Network Rail - home page) at ^140M, for single track. 55 miles of double track would be well over ^1Bn.

They got this by including acquiring land (15m strips alongside, temporarily, for contractors' convenience), by renewing all infrastructure, although they said that 75% was reusable, blanketing/deep ballasting, extra clearances for 100mph, contingency and optimism assumptions etc.

That's why those in the industry may say that starting from scratch is best.

If they had just kept the high level concrete skirting walkway continuous at Dawlish (apparently the residents felt it intrusive) there might never have been an issue.

OTC

Logged
AMLAG
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 176


View Profile
« Reply #254 on: March 17, 2014, 07:57:29 pm »

Just as well NR» (Network Rail - home page) did not get involved in the Bluebell Rly extension then !

Surely someone else can re-instate/build lines besides NR and its Contractorial/'over scoping' set ups.

Hundreds of thousands of good concrete f/b sleepers,with approx 50 yrs of life still in them, are being crushed or the lucky ones sold to farmers at a couple quid each for farm tracks etc.
50-60 yrs old B/H chaired conc. sleepers are increasingly finding their way to private lines for re-use for another 50 years !
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 30
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page