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Author Topic: New railway stations proposed for Cranbrook, Newcourt and Marsh Barton (merged topic)  (Read 118649 times)
devonexpress
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« Reply #165 on: August 26, 2018, 03:07:03 pm »

Moving the goal posts?

From Devon Live

Quote
Back in March, it was announced by Cllr Stuart Barker, cabinet member for economy and skills, that the funding deficit is expected to be closed within the next six months.

Cllr Alan Connett asked ‘when does Devon County Council anticipate the new rail station at Marsh Barton will be in use’ at the full council meeting last Thursday.

In response, Cllr Andrea Davis, Cabinet Member for Infrastructure, Development and Waste , said: “The situation at Marsh Barton Station is that we had a station design that met Network Rail’s design standards as agreed by the steering group (which includes Network Rail).

“However, following the award of the contract to design and build the station, Network Rail's design standards changed. This has led to the design being changed and subsequent rising costs and a funding gap. We have discussed this with the Department for Transport who shared our concerns, but they have recognised the merit of the scheme.

“The opening of the Station is dependent on closing the funding gap. We are working on several options including reducing costs and securing additional sources of funding from Network Rail and potentially the GWR franchise extension. Also, we have recently submitted a bid to Government for further funds as part of national bidding process. So, at present we have no planned date for bringing the station into use.”

Sure Devon County Council would have been notified if Network Rail was planning to change its design standards?  Then again this is Great Britain nobody talks to each other in departments anymore, half the reason why projects always go over budget. It seems to me there is too big a plans for Marsh Barton, why not cut down the amount, and spend just enough to get it open and paying for itself and then do the fancy non important stuff later?
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johnneyw
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« Reply #166 on: August 26, 2018, 04:46:17 pm »

I've notice before that some schemes seem to start simply enough and then they take on a life of their own becoming more ambitious/complicated with the attendant increase in costs. I've seen this with Metrowest 'improvements' whereby not happy to reopen lines and increase frequency from and to Temple Meads, we now have to have through services going way beyond.

Isn't it sometimes a good idea just to start modestly and expand if the scheme takes off?

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« Reply #167 on: August 26, 2018, 07:20:47 pm »

Isn't it sometimes a good idea just to start modestly and expand if the scheme takes off?

Yes.

I've ... built a business and set objectives ... and also set myself a few campaigning objectives since I got involved with some of this rail stuff. There's balances - to set the objectives high enough to make them complete as a working solution, yet not too high that you can't reach them.   And there's a very interesting decision to make as to whether (if you set objectives low) it will be easy to pick up and develop further based on initial success, or whether you're in an environment where you'll not get another bite at the cherry.

The other thing - and I was warned by a member of this forum in 2005 (before it was a forum). - is as you get involved, don't get so involved that you have no way back out.  Now you are not one to be stepping out with risk, JohnneyW, but I add that for completeness of the story.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #168 on: August 26, 2018, 09:50:09 pm »

I think Devonexpress's above observation about Marsh Barton is such a useful one. It would be great to have a complete in all aspects station up and running from day one but if that 'day one' is distant or uncertain due to high costs then surely a pared down version with an earlier start date could be seen as a serious option to consider. As long as later improvements would not, as a result, be compromised then there is surely little to loose and much to gain?
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Robert Wilensky
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« Reply #169 on: September 06, 2018, 09:18:11 pm »

I think Devonexpress's above observation about Marsh Barton is such a useful one. It would be great to have a complete in all aspects station up and running from day one but if that 'day one' is distant or uncertain due to high costs then surely a pared down version with an earlier start date could be seen as a serious option to consider. As long as later improvements would not, as a result, be compromised then there is surely little to loose and much to gain?

The exemplar here must be the Portway Park and Ride station, near Avonmouth. I shall ignore that when the P&R was planned, the council were told that if they moved it closer to Shirehampton station, people could bet the train if they wanted as well as the bus, advice that was ignored at the time because no-one caught trains then. But before the full Metrowest Rail plan was cobbled together, there was as close to a promise as you will ever get from a council that a station would be built there by 2013, at a bargain cost of £400,000. This was to be the first use of a modular construction designed to provide basic platform facilities at low cost. Five years later, it is scheduled to open in 2019 at a cost, reported by te Post a year ago, of £2.23 million, plus another £400,000, to ponce up the park and ride a bit.
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Trowres
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« Reply #170 on: September 06, 2018, 10:08:49 pm »

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This was to be the first use of a modular construction designed to provide basic platform facilities at low cost

After seeing the works to extend Trowbridge and Freshford, I wonder if the modular construction really works out cheaper than the old-fashioned brick / infill?
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ellendune
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« Reply #171 on: September 06, 2018, 10:13:30 pm »

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This was to be the first use of a modular construction designed to provide basic platform facilities at low cost

After seeing the works to extend Trowbridge and Freshford, I wonder if the modular construction really works out cheaper than the old-fashioned brick / infill?


Bricklaying takes time and if you are trying to do the work overnight or in possessions then you need to minimise time. Modular construction might have seemed to take a long time, but I suggest the traditional methods would have taken even longer. 
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« Reply #172 on: September 06, 2018, 10:21:08 pm »

Bricklaying takes time and if you are trying to do the work overnight or in possessions then you need to minimise time. Modular construction might have seemed to take a long time, but I suggest the traditional methods would have taken even longer. 

At Portway, which will be a single platform on a single line, it's taken 5 years longer so far.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #173 on: September 07, 2018, 12:06:02 am »

So what was the reason for this change from a modular platform at Portway to a more traditional brick one?  Additionally, when was this change of plan made?
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« Reply #174 on: September 07, 2018, 08:13:12 am »

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This was to be the first use of a modular construction designed to provide basic platform facilities at low cost

After seeing the works to extend Trowbridge and Freshford, I wonder if the modular construction really works out cheaper than the old-fashioned brick / infill?


Having seen the works at Melksham, I suspect that relative price comes down to how long the line / track has to be closed.  Modular construction as we have seen it has lead to an enormous amount of time and effort away from the line of track and clearance distance from it, but then with the extra platform sections being placed in a very short time.  Modern safety standards preclude work being done on an open railway with the brickies hopping out of the way as a train approaches, even if that train in under a temporary speed restriction (TSR) and there's a lookout man employed to tell the team doing the actual job to get out of the way.

Logic is that new platforms on new tracks could still be cheaper using old fashioned methods.  But then would you have the skilled team available, or is it best simply to have a single pool of roving station builders, putting in platforms at Kenilworth one week, Freshford the next, Stonehenge and Wilton next year, Pilning Westgate in 2020, and Portishead in 2021.
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martyjon
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« Reply #175 on: September 07, 2018, 08:25:24 am »

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This was to be the first use of a modular construction designed to provide basic platform facilities at low cost
After seeing the works to extend Trowbridge and Freshford, I wonder if the modular construction really works out cheaper than the old-fashioned brick / infill?
Having seen the works at Melksham, I suspect that relative price comes down to how long the line / track has to be closed.  Modular construction as we have seen it has lead to an enormous amount of time and effort away from the line of track and clearance distance from it, but then with the extra platform sections being placed in a very short time.  Modern safety standards preclude work being done on an open railway with the brickies hopping out of the way as a train approaches, even if that train in under a temporary speed restriction (TSR) and there's a lookout man employed to tell the team doing the actual job to get out of the way.

Logic is that new platforms on new tracks could still be cheaper using old fashioned methods.  But then would you have the skilled team available, or is it best simply to have a single pool of roving station builders, putting in platforms at Kenilworth one week, Freshford the next, Stonehenge and Wilton next year, Pilning Westgate in 2020, and Portishead in 2021.

Sorry, don't you mean Portishead 2120.  Grin
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grahame
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« Reply #176 on: September 07, 2018, 08:33:51 am »

Sorry, don't you mean Portishead 2120.  Grin

Love the joke ... but writing what could be done.
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