Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
End of through trains
Bristol to Waterloo - Why?

 
Please sign our petition
(more information)
 
Campaign links here
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 18:15 05 Dec 2021
- Covid: Travel changes too late to halt potential new wave - scientist
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 09/12/21 - Award Event - CRN
10/12/21 - Final day, service to Bristol
19/01/22 - MTUG - regular meeting
08/03/22 - WWRUG AGM - B-o-A
Random Image
Train RunningCancelled
14:18 Penzance to London Paddington
15:25 Cardiff Central to Southampton Central
20:20 Westbury to Swindon
21:13 Swindon to Westbury
22:02 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon
23:10 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa
23:13 Cardiff Central to Bristol Temple Meads
Short Run
16:21 Cardiff Central to Southampton Central
16:30 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
17:25 Cardiff Central to Southampton Central
17:37 Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads
19:33 Southampton Central to Cardiff Central
20:30 Cardiff Central to Southampton Central
20:33 Southampton Central to Bristol Temple Meads
20:36 Bristol Temple Meads to Cheltenham Spa
Delayed
05/12/21 15:42 London Paddington to Swansea
05/12/21 16:22 Swansea to London Paddington
05/12/21 16:42 London Paddington to Swansea
05/12/21 17:20 Swansea to London Paddington
05/12/21 17:42 London Paddington to Swansea
17:44 Plymouth to Gunnislake
17:53 Weymouth to Bristol Temple Meads
05/12/21 18:20 Swansea to London Paddington
18:35 Gunnislake to Plymouth
05/12/21 19:20 Swansea to London Paddington
05/12/21 19:42 London Paddington to Swansea
05/12/21 20:19 Swansea to London Paddington
05/12/21 20:42 London Paddington to Swansea
05/12/21 21:42 London Paddington to Swansea
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 05, 2021, 06:29:44 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[127] Are the railways fit for their (future) purpose?
[79] Masks To Become Compulsory On Public Transport Again
[52] Through service - Bristol to London (Waterloo) via Trowbridge ...
[41] South Western Railways Waterloo - Bristol services axed
[28] Advent quiz - day 3 - unlabelled maps
[14] Overhead Electrification Plans
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Cycles On FGW Trains  (Read 3914 times)
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7477


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« on: May 25, 2007, 02:27:12 pm »

Query by FOSBR (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways) :

There is concern from cyclists about the apparent imminent increasing FGW (First Great Western) restrictions re bikes on trains.

This is reminiscent of Wessex trains anticipation of the National response to the SRA» (Strategic Rail Authority - about)'a public consultation re bikes on trains. Wessex introduced its own draconian restrictions back in Spring/Summer 2004 whereby parties of more than 2 cycles were sometimes refused entry to virtually empty trains & refunds of thousands of pounds were made to rail/cycle season ticket holders whose rail journey was pointless if their bike was denied entry. There was much furore from cyclists. Many families or groups of cyclists stopped travelling with bike on train.

Since then, Wessex trains crew have generally allowed more than 2 bikes on trains where there is room to accommodate them. When the Franchise moved to FGW, this generally relaxed attitude continued & was legitimised in the FGW bikes on trains leaflet.

The notes of Timetable E page bluntly mentions:-
a.. Cycles only carried with advance reservations (red infilled circle header)
b.. Cycles not allowed (red cross inside circle header)
Page 167 of Timetable E covers bikes on trains but does not mention any leaflet (implying that this page is the definitive advise re Bikes on trains).

It omits:-
a.. discretion to carry bikes without reservations if there is room (i.e.if there are no clashing pre-booked bikes for the potential bike journey)
b.. relaxation of "cycle ban on restricted trains" arriving London Paddington from 0745 - 0945 and those departing London Paddington from 1630 - 1830 for purely "local bike journeys" made miles away from Paddington.
c.. discretion to carry more than 2 bikes on non reserveable services if there is room

Page 167 of Timetable E only mentions the (red infilled circle) "compulsory cycle reservation header" in the context of trains at Paddington either side of the morning/evening peak.

However, many other trains also carry the red infilled circle header - (VT (Virgin Trains - former franchises), SWT (South West Trains) & virtually all the Cardiff - Bristol - Westbury & onwards trains). This appears to render it virtually impossible to take cycles between Bristol & Bath without advance booking.

Why ?

The FGW local fleet of trains has been strengthened by importing some Trans Pennine class 158 trains whilst the maintenance regime improves. It was understood that they would be retained on FGW whilst a capacity problem exists.

The FGW class 158s have a "metal broom cupboard for 2 bikes" but for many the handlebars are a tight squeeze getting in & out - particularly for the second bike. When a Trans Pennine class 158 train made a guest appearance on the Severn Beach line, its "metal broom cupboard for bikes" side facing the central corridor had been stripped out & 2 small cycle racks had been fitted at the back of the "cupboard" to hold the tyre (furthest away from the door) in place. 3 bikes could comfortably be stored there plus more near the bulky luggage area.

Was this a standard Trans Pennine modification ?

If Trans Pennine could make the modification to class 158 rolling stock, why cannot FGW ? This would hugely help alleviate problems for cyclists on the longer "local" journeys.

Before & during the Wessex trains franchise, some "old real railway carriages" (with capacity for many bikes in a separate compartment) were used on the Weymouth & Brighton journeys. Initially this were steam hauled but later they were hauled by diesel locos at both ends. When properly publicised, they were hugely popular with adults & children. If there is insufficient capacity using DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) why cannot these be "hired in with crew" to meet anticipated peak summer demands?

Will there be an updated cycling by train leaflet?
Was anyone from the cycling fraternity consulted re Bikes on FGW trains at local or National level e.g. Council Cycling Officers, CTC or Sustrans?
If so - whom & are they satisfied?

I attended the Bristol Transport Forum early in the FGW Franchise, SW Rail Summit at Keynsham on 1st March & SWPTUF (South West Passenger Transport User's Forum (now TWSW» (TravelWatch SouthWest - website) - Travel Watch South West)) meeting at Taunton on 3rd March. At these we were assured that maintenance, punctuality & reliability would improve. Assurances were also given that reasons for disruptions would be given but this has often not materialised. Whilst there have been improvements, much more progress is still needed including better capacity.

I understand that there is an imminent FGW stakeholders meeting in Bristol. Who amongst the invited participants has a particular interest in cycling issues?

Reply from Simon Doggett , FGW's new Transport Integration Manager :

Just to clarify the situation, the cycle policy is not changing, and that the new timetables showed this change in error. I just wanted to state that cycles will still be allowed on HSTs (High Speed Train) as they always have been, and that yes, I am now re-writing the cycle policy leaflet to be completely clear on what our policy is.

The next print of timetables will then show the correct cycle info to match our policy.
Logged

Vous devez ĂȘtre impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 35007



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2007, 06:23:17 pm »

I note all this on cycles.  I undertand that 158 are being scheduled for the Sunday Weymouth services as they have more seats on them ... and the crews are expecting / having (not sure which) problems with the number of pushchairs and amount of luggage that daytrippers want to take.

Thank goodness it's a REALLY wet Bank Holiday Sunday today??
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
whistleblower
Full Member
***
Posts: 56


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2007, 10:51:06 am »

Reply from Simon Doggett , FGW (First Great Western)'s new Transport Integration Manager :  I am now re-writing the cycle policy leaflet to be completely clear on what our policy is.
Oh joy of joys!  My life is now complete, you can take me when you are ready, Lord Grin

A new manager re-writing the cycle policy leaflet, I really wish you hadn't told me about that, Lee.

From the point of view of somebody who has to manage re-written cycle policies, I think the closest we got to getting it right was the Wessex policy of NO non-folding bikes on commuter services.  Of course, commuting cyclists disagreed to such an extent that the Company gave in.  I'm a mountain-biker myself and fully appreciate the attraction of taking a bike on a train.  But we have to consider the fact that our local trains are not suitable for more than two bikes and that is what we have to manage.  A bike takes up the space of three standing people and in a crowded train can easily cause injury and soiled clothing to those nearby.  They cause delays as riders try to find somewhere to put them and as the conductor has to run up and down the platform, remonstrating, explaining and arguing.  And they travel for nothing.......

On quieter services there is usually room and it should be left to the conductor to decide whether it will inconvenience other passengers.  But there's not going to be room on busy Weymouths, Baths and Portsmouth-Cardiffs at busy periods, so how can you have a consistent policy?  The only CONSISTENT policy would be NO bikes at all.  It is best to let sleeping dogs lie and let it find it's own level.  My policy is, if they can get the bike on without harming others then I'll accept it.  But what cyclist is going to accept my judgement and get left behind?

As for Graham's comment about pushchairs and luggage on Weymouth services.  You are absolutely correct.  Holidaymakers are carrying ever larger wheelie bags that they cannot lift and which will not fit on luggage racks.  The other main travellers are daytrippers, many in large family groups with at least one pushchair.  There is usually a wheelchair passenger on most of these runs, as well.  Each 158 only has one wheelchair space so the only place for unfolded pushchairs is in the doorways.  The trend nowadays is for Mums to stack up the pushchairs with everything they need for the day, making it into more of a wheelbarrow festooned with carrier bags.  They will often take the baby out to make more room for luggage - because it's easier to push.  But getting them on and off a crowded train can be almost impossible.  They are too overloaded to fold and it would take too long anyway and then of course I get abused for not providing enough space.

It can be too dangerous to try and climb through this lot carrying a heavy ticket machine - if I don't hurt myself, I will hurt someone else and that is why you will often not see a conductor in the saloon.  We do need to be by the front door at certain stations for local door operation and this is usually achieved by walking along the platform at the previous station to position ourselves at the front.  That gives us no access to a PA (Public Address) point so there will be no PAs.

Just a little insight from the other side of some of these problems.
Logged
Jim
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1186


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2007, 10:41:37 pm »

They are too overloaded to fold and it would take too long anyway and then of course I get abused for not providing enough space.

Yep, it will allways be the front lines staff's fault when it goes wrong, even though they tend to suffer just as much as the passengers

Quote
It can be too dangerous to try and climb through this lot carrying a heavy ticket machine - if I don't hurt myself, I will hurt someone else and that is why you will often not see a conductor in the saloon.  We do need to be by the front door at certain stations for local door operation and this is usually achieved by walking along the platform at the previous station to position ourselves at the front.  That gives us no access to a PA (Public Address) point so there will be no PAs.

150's you could do PA, as you have 'unintrued access' to the front driving cab, so you just got to negaotiate with the driver to let you have acess, as none of the platofrms are on the correct sides on the way down, to just put your hand in whilst at a station

158's however, if i had my way, the guard would tell the driver to 'buterfly' it, so there is no need for the guard to struggle down!

Logged

Cheers
Jim Smiley
AG's most famous quote "It'll be better next week"
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7477


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2007, 02:50:36 pm »

A petition to Downing Street has been launched (link below.)
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/cyclerailspaces/

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to force rail companies to have a minimum number of cycle spaces and provide more carraiges or face re-nationalisation. These improvements should be funded in part by taxation of air and car travel in order to help reduce carbon emmissions below the Kyoto level by 2012."
Logged

Vous devez ĂȘtre impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page