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Author Topic: Swindon to Kemble re-doubling - ongoing discussion and updates  (Read 290514 times)
JayMac
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« Reply #255 on: August 31, 2013, 17:31:54 »

I'm guessing that minimum seperation has many variables. There's line speed, rolling stock loading gauge, curve radii and cant/superelevation....

Probably more.
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« Reply #256 on: August 31, 2013, 19:47:43 »

Indeed, there is a wide choice of "official" values for track interval (the "six foot") or spacing between centres:

Even the note "Guidance on Gauging" (GE/GN 8573) gives a number of values, but none that is the definitive answer:

1) ^8.1 A possible structure gauge for Britain^ in which the track interval is 1970 mm (track centres at 3405 mm). "The structure gauge model is based upon the traditional BR (British Rail(ways)) structure gauge defined in BR Handbook 4 and further described in withdrawn GC» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line)/RT5204."

2) ^8.4 UIC compliant structure gauges^ for straight and two curve radii, giving track centres of 3597 mm, 3858 mm (on 250 m curve), and  4092 mm (on 150 m curve). "The [^] structure gauges have been developed from UIC leaflet 505-4 [^]."

3) For high-speed lines, under the heading ^Part 10: Requirements Relating to Gauging in the High-Speed TSIs^, it says:
Quote
     Distance between track centres
The minimum nominal distance between track centres on upgraded lines in Great  Britain shall be 3165 mm.
10.2.2.11   Part G of GC/RT5212 sets out requirements for new, altered and temporary  infrastructure, including track intervals. These requirements could require a greater distance between track centres than the minimum set out in the TSI.
10.2.2.12   The accepted distance between track centres in Britain is 3400 mm for straight track.

The main relevant parts of GC/RT5212 are:
Quote
G1 Minimum upper sector clearances for new infrastructure
G1.1 Requirement for normal clearances
New infrastructure (as defined in section B3) shall be designed to provide at least normal clearances (as defined in section C2) to all types of rolling stock that use the route or can reasonably be foreseen to use the route.
The required clearances shall be calculated in accordance with Part D of this document.
G1.2 Additional clearances at vehicle window level
The following clearances shall be provided at the level of opening vehicle windows (normally between 2000 mm and 3000 mm above the plane of the rails):
a) 450 mm where vehicles operate with opening windows allowing passengers to lean out
b) 250 mm where vehicles operate with opening windows for the use of train crew.
GM/RT2456 requires passenger door windows that are capable of being opened (drop lights) to be locked so that they can only be opened manually by train crew. This requirement is to be implemented by 31 December 2005 for all vehicles that are intended to remain in passenger use after 31 December 2007.
Quote
G3 Track intervals for new infrastructure
For each section of track the infrastructure controller shall determine track intervals to be used for new infrastructure, taking into account:
a) the requirement to provide normal clearances, as set out in section G1.1
b) where necessary, the requirement to provide additional clearances for opening windows, as set out in section G1.2
However, it should be noted that this document tells you how to set your own track interval, rather than specifying a value for you, and covers many other relevant factors.

Note that a gauge of 4^ converts to 1435.1 mm. This is rounded to 1435 mm in the definitive value in GC/RT5021 ^2.9.1.1. Track interval is generally measured between the gauge faces (i.e. it includes one rail of each track).

So there you have it - if there is an answer it's 3.4 m between centres on straight track, a bit more on sharp curves. The lines through Reading are, as far as I can measure them, at 3.4 m. That appears to have been set to allow for you sticking your head out of a window; if that's no longer a possibility then maybe the spacing could come down in future.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 18:50:38 by stuving » Logged
bobm
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« Reply #257 on: September 01, 2013, 22:07:53 »

FGW (First Great Western) advising the line will not reopen until at least 11am on Monday.
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JayMac
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« Reply #258 on: September 01, 2013, 23:17:20 »

Looks like Network Rail jumped the gun a bit with their comments to the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23920961

 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #259 on: September 01, 2013, 23:19:45 »

Looks like Network Rail jumped the gun a bit with their comments to the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23920961

 Roll Eyes

It doesn't say at what time on Monday they'll return to normal  Wink and it only says due to anyway ...

Quote
Rail services between Swindon and Kemble are due to return to normal on Monday following three weeks of work, Network Rail has told the BBC.
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JayMac
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« Reply #260 on: September 01, 2013, 23:43:17 »

FGW (First Great Western) were certainly expecting to run trains first thing.

They are now frantically organising buses and drawing up a train plan for start of service on Monday morning.
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« Reply #261 on: September 01, 2013, 23:57:09 »

FGW (First Great Western) advising the line will not reopen until at least 11am on Monday.

10am now;

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/

 Wink
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« Reply #262 on: September 02, 2013, 00:11:22 »

11am on National Rail Enquiries, @NRE_FirstGW on twitter, and via internal industry sources.
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« Reply #263 on: September 02, 2013, 08:15:16 »

FGW (First Great Western) were certainly expecting to run trains first thing.

They are now frantically organising buses and drawing up a train plan for start of service on Monday morning.

As it's not the first time engineering works have overrun, presumably it is to a contingency plan, even though things will be frantic as it is implemented  Grin
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bobm
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« Reply #264 on: September 02, 2013, 08:46:48 »

Might this be a glimmer of hope from Journeycheck?

Quote
09:55 Gloucester to Kemble due 10:26

This train will be diverted from Kemble.
This train will call additionally at Swindon.
This is due to over-running engineering works.

For the latest rail travel news, why not follow us on Twitter @FGW (First Great Western).

Message Received :02/09/2013 08:39

Scheduled Expected Destination
09:55 09:55 Gloucester
10:07 10:07 Stonehouse
10:12 10:12 Stroud
10:26 10:26 Kemble
10:43           Swindon


Looks like this one might run through....
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« Reply #265 on: September 02, 2013, 15:15:58 »

It looks like the route opened around 11:00

National Rail Enquiries is now showing trains running through relatively disruption free.
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« Reply #266 on: September 02, 2013, 15:49:19 »

Data from Real Time Trains http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/KEM/2013/09/02/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt shows that the first train was 2Z28, a 10:40 DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) shuttle from Kemble to Swindon, arriving in Swindon at 10:56 1/4. This was a continuation of the Gloucester to Kemble shuttle highlighted by bobm.

The first train from Swindon to Kemble was 1G21, the 09:36 Paddington to Cheltenham HST (High Speed Train). It left Swindon 5 mins late at 10:44 1/2 and I guess was held at Swindon loco yard for the 10:40 from Kemble on the single line, (how ironic) departing there at 10:56 1/2 (14 late) and arriving into Kemble 11:13 (21 late).

ST
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patch38
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« Reply #267 on: September 02, 2013, 18:33:19 »

Well, trains are going past (quite a shock after three weeks of relative silence) but quite gingerly by the look of things. Is there a blanket speed limit on the whole section or is it because there are still various Colas and Network Rail staff pottering around nearby?
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JayMac
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« Reply #268 on: September 02, 2013, 19:52:29 »

FGW (First Great Western) were certainly expecting to run trains first thing.

They are now frantically organising buses and drawing up a train plan for start of service on Monday morning.

As it's not the first time engineering works have overrun, presumably it is to a contingency plan, even though things will be frantic as it is implemented  Grin

Sadly that contingency didn't allow for a train service, or replacement road transport, in either direction serving Melksham this morning.

The first train from Swindon to Kemble was 1G21, the 09:36 Paddington to Cheltenham HST (High Speed Train). It left Swindon 5 mins late at 10:44 1/2 and I guess was held at Swindon loco yard for the 10:40 from Kemble on the single line, (how ironic) departing there at 10:56 1/2 (14 late) and arriving into Kemble 11:13 (21 late).

I was at Swindon this morning around 10am. Can confirm that was the case. The last rail replacement bus left Swindon at 1005 for all stations to Gloucester, with Cheltenham passengers advised to take the 1016 to Bristol Parkway and change onto CrossCountry. The 1031 Cheltenham to Paddington HST ran as scheduled, becoming the first normal timetabled up service.
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« Reply #269 on: September 04, 2013, 13:30:15 »

Well, trains are going past (quite a shock after three weeks of relative silence) but quite gingerly by the look of things. Is there a blanket speed limit on the whole section or is it because there are still various Colas and Network Rail staff pottering around nearby?

RMWeb has the current answer on this one:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63590-swindon-kemble-re-doubling/page-6

Quote
There is indeed a speed restriction along most of the current Single Line length, to allow the re-laid track to 'bed in'. It would normally have been 90 mph, but currently one section is 75 mph and another section 50 mph, pending imminent PW (Permanent Way) works to raise the lot to 75 mph. After that, following the above-mentioned 'bedding in' period and further tamping etc., the temporary speed restriction will be removed and normal (90 mph) line speed will apply

Looking at Real Time Trains website for Kemble, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/KEM/2013/09/03/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
the average delay on the journey time from Swindon Loco Yard to Swindon and vv has been about 3 to 5 minutes since reopening.


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