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Author Topic: Swindon to Kemble re-doubling - ongoing discussion and updates  (Read 291878 times)
Railfriend
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« Reply #300 on: November 28, 2013, 14:04:34 »


Chris, what route is the 'electric spine'?
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ChrisB
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« Reply #301 on: November 28, 2013, 14:13:11 »

(Up from Southampton) -Reading West - Didcot - Oxford - Banbury (onto West Midlands)
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paul7575
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« Reply #302 on: November 28, 2013, 14:56:41 »

To add to Chris's info, north of Banbury it includes electrification of the route from Leamington through Coventry to Nuneaton, i.e. to the WCML (West Coast Main Line), but not the route via Solihull towards Birmingham.  I think this emphasises that it isn't principally concerned with Southampton to Birmingham, but to destinations further north and north-east.

The best 'quick description' is in the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)'s CP5 (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) HLOS (High Level Output Specification) which introduced the concept, which emphasises that the whole of the MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) electrification (i.e. north of Bedford), and the East West Rail electrification, are also considered part of the 'spine'.  In terms of a national programme I don't really think this latter point has been widely appreciated.  Perhaps earlier references to doing the spine after the MML should be re-appraised?

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The Electric Spine

34.The Secretary of State wishes the industry to develop and deliver within CP5 the major rail electrification and capability enhancement referred to as the ^Electric Spine^, in order to increase regional and national connectivity and support economic development by creating a high-capability 25kV electrified passenger and freight route from the South Coast via Oxford and the Midlands to South Yorkshire.

35.The routes to be electrified as part of the Electric Spine are:
- Southampton Port ^ Basingstoke (conversion from 750 dc);
- Basingstoke ^ Reading;
- Oxford ^ Leamington ^ Coventry;
- Coventry ^ Nuneaton;
- Oxford ^ Bletchley ^ Bedford (East West Rail core route);
- Bedford ^ Nottingham and Derby, and Derby ^ Sheffield (Midland Main Line); and
- Kettering ^ Corby

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-level-output-specification-2012
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TonyK
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« Reply #303 on: November 28, 2013, 16:04:38 »

There has been talk of Avonmouth to the Midlands being electrified so that it can join the electric spine. around the 8th vertebra. What time scale is unclear, as the deep sea container port has been put on hold.
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Now, please!
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« Reply #304 on: November 28, 2013, 17:14:02 »

There has been talk of Avonmouth to the Midlands being electrified so that it can join the electric spine. around the 8th vertebra. What time scale is unclear, as the deep sea container port has been put on hold.

If the wires do reach Avonmouth at some point in the future then I hope the other lines around Bristol will get similar treatment. Electrification I would believe bring another boost to the local rail services around Bristol.


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Railfriend
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« Reply #305 on: November 29, 2013, 14:37:17 »


Given that the Electric Spine scheme apparently doesn't include electrifying Nuneaton to Leicester, the Oxford to Bedford link would seem an important part of the north-south scheme.  According to rail maps on the website describing the Electric Spine, however, no regular train traffic presently operates between Bicester and Bletchley (though presumably the track reamins in place), so it seems a bit curious that such disused route would be chosen to be part of the scheme.
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paul7575
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« Reply #306 on: November 29, 2013, 16:22:31 »

According to rail maps on the website describing the Electric Spine, however, no regular train traffic presently operates between Bicester and Bletchley (though presumably the track reamins in place), so it seems a bit curious that such disused route would be chosen to be part of the scheme.

The East West rail re-opening project was already well on the way to funding, predominantly for a passenger service, but its advantages for freight (particularly in the southbound direction) were already widely recognised.  So I should think the 'electric spine' decision process probably considered it to be almost guaranteed to be open.  Then of course the GW (Great Western) electrification had by then included Oxford.   Because EWR's business case already assumed through running of services between at least Didcot and Milton Keynes, if not from Reading, I suggest electrification of EWR started looking like a 'no brainer' for the passenger service anyway, as both ends of the route would already be wired.

Going back to freight mentioned earlier, NR» (Network Rail - home page) had earlier worked out that crossing conflicts of southbound freight trains in the Nuneaton area could be solved by leaving them on the WCML (West Coast Main Line) slows as far as Bletchley, where they'd be able to take the flyover route towards Oxford, joining the GW without conflict at Wolvercote Jn, so you'd have a sort of one way route system for freight, with northbound through Leamington and southbound through Northampton!

Another issue is that for through services from the south getting through Nuneaton towards Leicester for the MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) and thence the north and northeast, is a bit of a nightmare in the current layout.  To cross the WCML without conflict would require a reversal beyond Nuneaton on the Birmingham line, returning over the flyover and through the new platform 7.

Paul
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narkoman
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« Reply #307 on: November 29, 2013, 20:55:29 »

To add to Chris's info, north of Banbury it includes electrification of the route from Leamington through Coventry to Nuneaton, i.e. to the WCML (West Coast Main Line), but not the route via Solihull towards Birmingham.  I think this emphasises that it isn't principally concerned with Southampton to Birmingham, but to destinations further north and north-east.

The best 'quick description' is in the DfT» (Department for Transport - about)'s CP5 (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) HLOS (High Level Output Specification) which introduced the concept, which emphasises that the whole of the MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) electrification (i.e. north of Bedford), and the East West Rail electrification, are also considered part of the 'spine'.  In terms of a national programme I don't really think this latter point has been widely appreciated.  Perhaps earlier references to doing the spine after the MML should be re-appraised?

Quote
The Electric Spine

34.The Secretary of State wishes the industry to develop and deliver within CP5 the major rail electrification and capability enhancement referred to as the ^Electric Spine^, in order to increase regional and national connectivity and support economic development by creating a high-capability 25kV electrified passenger and freight route from the South Coast via Oxford and the Midlands to South Yorkshire.

35.The routes to be electrified as part of the Electric Spine are:
- Southampton Port ^ Basingstoke (conversion from 750 dc);
- Basingstoke ^ Reading;
- Oxford ^ Leamington ^ Coventry;
- Coventry ^ Nuneaton;
- Oxford ^ Bletchley ^ Bedford (East West Rail core route);
- Bedford ^ Nottingham and Derby, and Derby ^ Sheffield (Midland Main Line); and
- Kettering ^ Corby

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/high-level-output-specification-2012
We live in interesting times.  Particularly interested in Southampton Port to Basingstoke. Where does that leave Waterloo to Southampton services?
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John R
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« Reply #308 on: November 29, 2013, 21:50:49 »

Much modern third rail stock can easily be converted to dual voltage, (partly so it improves the residual value to the leasing companies), so I would imagine that would be the solution.

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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #309 on: November 30, 2013, 00:00:34 »

Meanwhile, thank you for posting a thought-provoking question, narkoman - and may I offer you a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum!  Smiley
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Railfriend
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« Reply #310 on: November 30, 2013, 00:59:29 »


Paul, thanks for the last post on the Electric Spine.

When I looked at the HLOS (High Level Output Specification) 2012 maps I assumed that the Bedford-Sheffield electrification route was primarily carrying heavy freight bound for Southampton and vice versa rather than freight on the WCML (West Coast Main Line) being re-directed through Oxford as your post mentioned.  That was why I wondered about the Nuneaton-Leicester line not being electrified.  Northbound freight via Leamington and southbound via Bletchley makes sense for freight moving between Southampton and the WCML.  Given that the heavier freight is on the WCML I can't help but wonder if consideration was given to electrifying the WCML north from Bletchley rather than the line north from Bedford to Sheffield if it is cheaper to move freight using electrification.  Maybe the Bedford-Sheffield electrification was well underway for passenger services before the Electric Spine linkage to Southampton came along?
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RichardB
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« Reply #311 on: December 01, 2013, 17:55:00 »

Much modern third rail stock can easily be converted to dual voltage, (partly so it improves the residual value to the leasing companies), so I would imagine that would be the solution.



Thankfully the South West Alliance would far rather put the wires up via Andover and Romsey than convert the main line through Winchester.  I hope that turns out to be the solution.
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ellendune
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« Reply #312 on: December 01, 2013, 19:20:10 »

But part of the justification was that it would be a pilot for the conversion of the entire 750V dc network to 25kV.  As has been said the power supply equipment and the rolling stock for 25kV is cheaper when it has to be replaced and there are also significant energy savings.

As someone else of this community says "The future is 25,000 Volts a.c." I am sure he can explain better than I.  Calling Electric Train!
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paul7575
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« Reply #313 on: December 01, 2013, 19:33:23 »

Thankfully the South West Alliance would far rather put the wires up via Andover and Romsey than convert the main line through Winchester.  I hope that turns out to be the solution.

I don't think that proposal has any official standing, despite being reported in various media as the MD's personal preference.   I just don't see the 'alliance' as meaning SWT (South West Trains) can decide their own infrastructure priorities at this level - it is a DfT» (Department for Transport - about) decision.

Paul

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ellendune
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« Reply #314 on: December 01, 2013, 19:36:25 »

We seem to have strayed off topic here.
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