|
inspector_blakey
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2010, 03:27:44 AM » |
|
The six beeps ([guard] "ding ding", [driver] "ding ding", [guard] "ding ding") was peculiar to FGW high-speed services as far as I'm aware. It certainly isn't the case on the West DMU fleet and I don't think it was used by any other TOC. Since time immemorial the rightaway (RA) signal on stock equipped with a bell or buzzer has been simply "two" from guard to driver, who acknowledges with another two, so in that respect the "new" way is actually the traditional one. It was suggested to me by someone on the inside that FGW adopted the additional repetition of the RA signal by the guard following a couple of incidents in which drivers had started trains without permission, as an additional safeguard. Not sure how credible my source is on that one though!
Not sure when the change occurred as I was sitting in coach A of a Carmarthen service a few weeks ago when I was back in the UK and didn't notice that anything had changed.
Incidentally, guards still all carry green flags (albeit mostly without sticks these days) for use in the event of a buzzer failure.
As a further aside, there is a straight six-beeps signal meaning "draw up" (usually referring to starting the train but only pulling up to a signal that's still at danger) although I don't know whether that is still used.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 03:43:49 AM by inspector_blakey »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IndustryInsider
|
|
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2010, 12:45:09 PM » |
|
Just to concur with Blakey's post and add that there were wiring problems with the Driver<>Guard system which sometimes led to spurious beeps being heard by the driver, which led to at least one incident with a train leaving with doors open. The extra two from the Guard was a solution to ensure that it wouldn't happen again. Following the re-wiring of the fleet and installation of more modern handsets it's felt that this extra safeguard is no longer necessary, so it's back to the industry standard 2 and 2.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
qwerty
|
|
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2010, 01:50:12 PM » |
|
Just to concur with Blakey's post and add that there were wiring problems with the Driver<>Guard system which sometimes led to spurious beeps being heard by the driver, which led to at least one incident with a train leaving with doors open. The extra two from the Guard was a solution to ensure that it wouldn't happen again. Following the re-wiring of the fleet and installation of more modern handsets it's felt that this extra safeguard is no longer necessary, so it's back to the industry standard 2 and 2.
Change being sold to staff as bringing HSS into line with West and LTV |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
devon_metro
|
|
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2010, 04:11:25 PM » |
|
Just to concur with Blakey's post and add that there were wiring problems with the Driver<>Guard system which sometimes led to spurious beeps being heard by the driver, which led to at least one incident with a train leaving with doors open. The extra two from the Guard was a solution to ensure that it wouldn't happen again. Following the re-wiring of the fleet and installation of more modern handsets it's felt that this extra safeguard is no longer necessary, so it's back to the industry standard 2 and 2.
Wasn't long ago I was on a set with odd beeps on the buzzer to be heard in the TGS. Cue emergency brake application blocking station approach to Paddington; good job it was 6am. Problem persisted throughout journey however beeps were ignored. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Oxman
|
|
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2010, 07:51:44 PM » |
|
The change was made because of a couple of incidents where trains moved off with doors open as a result of misunderstanding buzzer codes. The code for the driver/guard asking to talk to each other is 3-3. So the guard gives 3-3, but the driver after the first 2 thinks its the right away and buzzes two back (whilst the guard is in the middle of his 3-3), and then hears the last 2 of the 3-3 and thinks that the guard is just acknowledging his 2, and off he goes.
So, with the cables much improved, time to go back to the standard method of 2 from the guard, 2 from the driver.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Cornish Traveller
|
|
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2010, 11:05:45 PM » |
|
 NXEA use 2-2-2 on hauled stock to avoid spurious beeps being accepted as guard - driver in error !
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Super Guard
|
|
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2010, 06:27:26 PM » |
|
As a further aside, there is a straight six-beeps signal meaning "draw up" (usually referring to starting the train but only pulling up to a signal that's still at danger) although I don't know whether that is still used.
This is still in use for places like Dawlish Warren and departing Crediton towards Exeter. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Any opinions made are those of my own and not necessarily those of First Great Western.
|
|
|
|
IndustryInsider
|
|
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2010, 07:00:45 PM » |
|
And indeed anywhere there's a signal at danger far enough from the end of the platform for it to be deemed worthwhile drawing up to.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
chris from nailsea
|
|
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2010, 07:49:45 PM » |
|
We had a similar discussion about buzzer codes, on HSTs in particular, some time ago: purely for completeness and continuity, I'm rather inclined to merge these topics - provided nobody objects? Chris. Edit note: Topics now merged. Chris. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 06:27:57 PM by chris from nailsea »
|
Logged
|
'Level crossings on the railway network are safe - unless they are used in an unsafe manner.' Discuss.
William Huskisson MP was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
|
|
|
|
inspector_blakey
|
|
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2010, 02:30:14 AM » |
|
A random thought popped into my head earlier on when I was in the gym with nothing better to think about... Is use of the buzzer recorded by the "OTMR" on-board data recorders where fitted?
Oh, and no objections to merging from me!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
gaf71
|
|
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2010, 11:39:28 AM » |
|
A random thought popped into my head earlier on when I was in the gym with nothing better to think about... Is use of the buzzer recorded by the "OTMR" on-board data recorders where fitted?
Oh, and no objections to merging from me!
Yes it is. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IndustryInsider
|
|
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2010, 12:41:50 PM » |
|
I think it depends on the type of train. I'm pretty sure on a Turbo it isn't.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
The SprinterMeister
|
|
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2010, 06:34:08 PM » |
|
A random thought popped into my head earlier on when I was in the gym with nothing better to think about... Is use of the buzzer recorded by the "OTMR" on-board data recorders where fitted?
Oh, and no objections to merging from me!
Yes it is. On the 14x & 15x it records the sounding of the buzzer (energisation of the buzzer train line). It does not record where on the train the buzzer train line circuit was energised. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Trundling gently round the SW
|
|
|
|
chrisoates
|
|
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2012, 10:41:28 PM » |
|
So can you give 2 at Dawlish Warren if the signal at the end of the loop is red for another train to pass on the up main?
Was held at Dawlish Warren today for a passing HST - as soon as it had passed Guard gave 6 and the Driver replied 6. Rather than just drawing forward we carried on as the signal must have cleared. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
