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Author Topic: Cotswold Line redoubling: 2008 - 2011  (Read 640792 times)
JayMac
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« Reply #1485 on: September 03, 2011, 12:13:02 »

Totally off topic, but Page 100!  Wink
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #1486 on: September 03, 2011, 16:20:44 »

The supplement is in the Oxford Mail and Worcester News today.
Just picked up the last copy of the Oxford Mail at the Charlbury Co-op - a really nicely produced supplement. I love the picture of Charlbury station looking forlorn in 1976!
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Btline
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« Reply #1487 on: September 03, 2011, 16:25:20 »

Quote
Despite many rumblings about Pershore and Hanborough, all that has happened on the Cotswold Line is Charlbury gaining a couple of extra spaces when lines were painted and the car park given a proper surface, i.e. ensuring that people parked sensibly.  There's talk of the former allotment area being used as an overflow car park now that the redoubling team have finished with it.  Anyone have any updates on that?

It was an awful lot more than a couple of spaces actually - also at Kingham - since without markings people tend to give their cars very generous amounts of space. A bid went in during the spring for money from the station enhancements fund to turn the Charlbury site compound on the allotments into permanent parking. A decision is thought to be imminent.

At Pershore efforts to achieve improvements have been frustrated for years because of the piecemeal way former railway land was disposed of around the station. A land swap with one of the adjacent businesses has pretty much been finalised now, which will create a rather more logical parcel of land for station parking and allow extra spaces. Honeybourne has just gained half-a-dozen as a result of the footbridge work and remarking.

Quote
your point about Ascott is farcical

In what way? The station is right next to the village. Given a proper service, not just one a day each way, more people would use trains. Amazingly enough that's what has happened at Pershore, Hanborough and Honeybourne since more trains started to use them. In the early 1970s the first two both had one train a day each way, like the halts, while Honeybourne was closed at that time.

What is farcical about giving people the ability to leave their car at home, never mind at a station? I do not believe that surrounding stations with ever-bigger car parks is necessarily a good thing. It creates congestion and pollution - just ask anyone living near Bicester North.

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Oh I swear one day I'll get a bulldozer and flatten them myself!!!

Are you sure you'll be able to find them? You didn't understand the geography of the area around Combe and Finstock or Ascott and Shipton when raging against them, you didn't know that Shipton doesn't have a car park. You used to advocate withdrawing stops at Charlbury, the busiest intermediate station on the line (on current evidence, the only thing you have ever changed your mind about).
 
Quote
I'm glad you finally acknowledge demand at the West of the line! People have deserted the line in droves. I'm sure the tiny car parks at pershore and hanborough would be full whatever so using the "Evesham traffic chaos" argument is silly.

I have never disputed there is demand at the western end of the line - I know there is demand because there are lots of people on trains arriving at Moreton-in-Marsh from Honeybourne and leaving in the other direction - some of them may even live in Worcester. What I have disputed and will continue to do are:
a. The number of people who actually drive all the way to Warwick and Birmingham International (risking delays on the M5/M42/M40) because of the sheer awfulness of the Cotswold Line service.
b. That there is sufficient demand in Worcester to justify the cost of running super-express services for one of the smallest cities in the country. It is too far away for regular commuting to London, and small cities mean fewer people who need to travel.

Would the car parks at Pershore, Honeybourne and Hanborough be full if their service towards Oxford and London in the morning peaks was reduced to the following (based on September 12 timetable)? The car park at Evesham is full, so is not any kind of alternative for people in the Vale.

Pershore: 05.45, 07.05 (halts train to Oxford only)
Honeybourne: 05.35. 07.19 (assuming a call by the halts train were reinstated to make up for the lost London trains)
Hanborough: 6.16, 6.38 (actually the car park is so small it is full after these first two trains but oddly enough some people don't want to set off quite so early), 8.01 (halts)




*Ascott is a tiny village. Comparisons to Pershore are ridiculous. How many such places does the WCML (West Coast Main Line), GWML (Great Western Main Line) etc. pass through. Do they have stops? No - because fortunately, they weren't in a marginal constancy. How long do you think the traffic jams are going to be if people drive a couple of miles to the next station? Sorry - still farcial.

*There's no reason why 10 mins can't be axed from Pad - OXF» (Oxford - next trains) fasts after Reading and when there are 125mph trains on all services. Improving the timetable and axing a couple of stops could get the journey time below 2 hrs. Plenty of people commute for 2 hrs (e.g. Ramsgate). However, Evesham would definitely be commutable from (1.5 hrs). Luckily there'll be plenty of spaces in the car park after Chiltern Evergreen 3. Anyway, I'm not just talking about commuters, but businessmen and daytrippers. You don't know how frustrating it is to race to Oxford and then stop at every village for the next 1.5 hrs! Thank goodness Chiltern have seen the light - I can get my sanity back.
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TerminalJunkie
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« Reply #1488 on: September 03, 2011, 17:50:24 »

I can get my sanity back.

I shall await that development with interest.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1489 on: September 03, 2011, 19:26:28 »

Sanity for 15 minutes max?.....?
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willc
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« Reply #1490 on: September 03, 2011, 19:51:53 »

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Thank goodness Chiltern have seen the light

Chiltern haven't seen any light, they serve a completely different area from the Cotswold Line, with far larger towns spread all along their route, and link the two biggest cities in England, so are able to offer a completely different spread of services to cover all the communities they serve - including, er, villages, like Kings Sutton, Lapworth, Seer Green...
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Btline
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« Reply #1491 on: September 03, 2011, 19:56:17 »

I shall await that development with interest.
Sanity for 15 minutes max?.....?
Cry
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stebbo
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« Reply #1492 on: September 03, 2011, 21:59:52 »

I don't understand the bit about Chiltern operating from Oxford. As I've said on another piece the logical thing would be to re-open the line to Thame. But that merely reinstates the original line to Oxford before the line from Didcot was built way back when - but to my mind better than going via Bicester.

As to faster links from the Cotswolds/Herefordshire, I've said it before, I'll say it again - and I know it's not popular with everyone - but run some trains without stops at Pershore, Honeybourne and Handborough (and Reading for that matter as they get plenty of trains).

As someone who used to live in Hereford (from 1990 to 2009) and now lives in Gloucestershire, but uses Evesham to go to London, I've noticed the slowing of the trains. I know Handborough is (now) a busy station but a coupleof expresses please....

And to round this off, what chance of a bit more redoubling in a few years, say to Pershore and Handborough.

PS I never thought this thread would go on so far. I'm a railway fan but not that technically expert f 
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #1493 on: September 03, 2011, 22:41:56 »

Totally off topic, but Page 100!  Wink

PS I never thought this thread would go on so far. I'm a railway fan but not that technically expert f 

Ah! ... a couple of points from me, then:

Yes, this particular topic is our most popular thread, here on the Coffee Shop forum (in terms of numbers of views and posts); and

Thanks, stebbo, you've just reminded me exactly who started this whole thing off, using all those BLOCK CAPITALS!  Shocked Roll Eyes Grin

Chris.  Wink
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Btline
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« Reply #1494 on: September 03, 2011, 22:45:44 »

Don't worry, Stebbo, your views are not unpopular. Indeed they are a sensible suggestion that would get people out of their cars. Unfortuantely, our cries are not heard that much, as frustrated commuters deserted the line years ago - never to return. Some people have even been forced to move house, uprooting their families, just to live near a different line. All could change - it only takes one TT change.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #1495 on: September 04, 2011, 00:20:40 »

Purely in the interests of reader 'readability' - I've now amended all of the headings in this particular topic to remove the use of BLOCK CAPITALS THROUGHOUT. Roll Eyes
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #1496 on: September 04, 2011, 01:20:42 »

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As I've said on another piece the logical thing would be to re-open the line to Thame. But that merely reinstates the original line to Oxford before the line from Didcot was built way back when - but to my mind better than going via Bicester.

What's logical about rebuilding - at colossal expense - a largely single-track line where the route has been breached by the A40 dual-carriageway, built over in Wheatley and where Horspath tunnel is now a designated bat sanctuary, among other minor obstacles? Chiltern took a look and decided not to bother. And it wasn't the original line to Oxford. The route was only extended from Thame to Oxford in the 1860s. The line from Didcot to Oxford opened in 1844.

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run some trains without stops at Pershore, Honeybourne and Handborough (and Reading for that matter as they get plenty of trains)

Yes, you and btline keep saying it, but you never, ever say what the people who use those stations should do instead, do you? Get in their cars and drive to the Chiltern Line, I suppose. I pointed out above what the eastbound morning peak services from those stations would look like - ie near-useless - if btline's approach were adopted but he just ignored it - as usual. And yes, let's miss out Reading as well while we're at it, despite it being an increasingly important employment centre and one of the country's main interchange stations.

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Some people have even been forced to move house, uprooting their families, just to live near a different line
.

So now we've moved on from 'First Great Western, the railway company that hates Worcester' to 'First Great Western, the railway company that hates Worcester and ruins families' lives'...
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1497 on: September 04, 2011, 09:37:41 »

So where is the evidence that Worcester-London has the required passenger demand?
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paul7575
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« Reply #1498 on: September 04, 2011, 14:48:45 »

I don't understand the bit about Chiltern operating from Oxford. As I've said on another piece the logical thing would be to re-open the line to Thame.

Quote
Reopening the Princes Risborough-Thame-Oxford railway, via a Parkway
station at M40 Junction 8. This was well received in discussions with
stakeholders, but was rejected due to the substantial costs of building an
alternative route, where the trackbed had been built over, and the need to
use the heavily congested existing line between Kennington Junction and
Oxford on the southern approach to the city.

From an EG3 consultation report:  http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.uk/uploads/05%20-%20Consultation%20Report.pdf

AIUI (as I understand it) the comparative costs of providing station capacity approaching from the north or south were massively different, even if the obstructions on the Thame route had been non-existent.  The choice was between either rebuilding the parcels platforms at Oxford into what is effectively a separate station, signalled from Marylebone, or approaching Oxford via a flat junction, and then solving the problem of non-existent south facing bay platforms.

Paul 
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Btline
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« Reply #1499 on: September 04, 2011, 15:07:36 »

Plus Chiltern are going to grab loads of passengers from Water Eaton Parkway with its 59 min journey times and links to A40 and A34. They'll have to be questions regarding the future of Islip and Hanborough stations I would have thought, as I expect patronage at both will be dented by the new line. Especially Islip due to proximity and having the same A34 access. But if Hanborough's car park is filled by 6.30am, tired commuters may look elsewhere for a "stress free" parking experience.
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