Wrong train, wrong TM

[whole diary]

[chrisoates]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076183/Good-Samaritan-threatened-arrest-organising-train-whip-round-pensioners-115-penalty-fare.html

[Btline]

Simple: the VT^▸ (Virgin Trains - former franchises) staff should have printed her a "valid" ticket, at Manchester before she boarded.

Or they should have told the GUARD (not train manager) before the train left.

Doesn't anyone have an ounce of common sense? I do not blame the guard, by the way, for fining.

About the "begging" - not sure....

[IndustryInsider]

It sounds a shocking story, but I would like to here the TM^‡(resolve)'s side of the story as well before I launched into lots of silly comments like the readers of The Daily Mail love to do at a moments notice!

[vacman]

Firstly lets get one thing clear, it's not a fine or a penalty fare, it's a new ticket.
When you buy an Advance ticket it is clearly stated that you must stick to your booked train, as for the staff saying she could get on the next train who know's? she may have just said "whens the next train to London" without mentioning tickets, I see it every day, I've had people get on at places like Hayle (which is unmanned) and people have said "the man at the station said I could get this train"!! I'm sure fellow TM^‡(resolve)'s and Conductors and revenue staff on this forum can recall many similar stories!!

[G.Uard]

It can be difficult to cut passengers a 'bit of slack', particularly when they are faced with exit barriers at destination.  Discretion is all very well between say Westbury and Avoncliff, but far more difficult between Temple Meads and Bath Spa. 

Vacman is spot on with his comment above and given the inherent unreliability of such Daily Mail expos^s, I feel that it would be wise to await the story from the TM^‡(resolve)'s point of view, particularly re the 'begging'  aspect of this tale.

Edited for typos

[vacman]

As for the "begging", it gets on my tit's when other people but in, the worst one is when you've got some scroat with no money and some dogooder offers to pay for them!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Yes, vacman, I do sympathise with you regarding 'scroats' - but here, we're apparently talking about some dear old lady of 75:

Lena Ainscow, 75, sobbed as she was forced to hand over ^115 for a new ticket, despite having been told to board that service by Virgin staff

Just by way of comparison, a colleague and I travelled back to Bristol from Manchester by XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) on Wednesday.  Some chump jostled his way into my colleagues seat, claiming he had a reservation for it.  However, it soon transpired that he did have a reservation for that seat - but on the Sheffield train.  When the train manager asked for tickets, and the chump explained that he was on the wrong train, the train manager merely observed, "Well, you'll have to get off at Stockport and make alternative arrangements, then!"

 

[devon_metro]

Loving the comments at the bottom. Like one or two people boycotting Virgin is going to make any difference 

[eightf48544]

The most interesting thing to me about this story is why did the ticket say 10:45 and the itinerary 10:15?  I thought they are produced at the same time.

Note the mail only printed the ^115 ticket.

However it does highlight the problem with advanced tickets and a frequent service, more than one train an hour. People are likely to arrive early at the station to avoid missing the train which hopefully the booking clerk has told them is the one to catch and matches their ticket.  They then see a train to their destination displayed or ask where's the X train  and assume it's their train.  They don't realise that there might be earlier trains to their destination. As far as they are concerned their train is the only train to their destination because that's the one they've been booked on.

It's actually a disguised compliment to those TOCS that run frequent, more than one an hour services, that incidents like this can occur. Had it been an hourly service this lady would probably had no problems because there wouldn't have been a 10:15 to catch.

As an aside DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) are experimenting with new cashless ticket machines. We used them in Dresden Hbf last year admittedly under supervision as they were brand new.

You put your journey requirements into the machine and it gives you your journey possibilities.

You select the servie you require any reservations etc and it gives you the times price etc. It can price ICE/IC^▸ (Inter City)/EC and RE^▸ (Religious Education)/RB. It can also deal with Lander tickets which are go anywhere in the Lander on RE/RB for 5 people after 09:00 around 26 Euro. It is also able to issue two Lander tickets (Saxony Berlin  Brandenburg) to cover RE from Dresden to Berlin.

Having selected your journey it prints out the details including the platform you start fromand  arrive at and the platforms at the chaging staion together with a bar code. You take this to another machine to pay. The second machine reads the barcode  you pay by cash or card and it prints the tickets. You can print several itineries to study beofer chosing one as the barcode remains valid for a couple of hours.

Thus five of us travelled from Dresden to Berlin for 10.40 Euros each instead 35 E each on the EC. It took slightly longer but far less crowded. Double deck coaches push pull electric one same platform interchange.

Thinking about it's exactly how on line booking works with National Rail Enquiries, except you don't have the nonsense of chosing a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to issue tickets. I recommend Chiltern  (the least worse TOC) excellent service tickets usually arrive next day and they get 9% even if your journey goes nowhere near their line.

[devon_metro]

Perhaps a system where by on the internet you select a ticket and a reservation is sent to you and you then pay the full balance on the train?

[grahame]

Perhaps a system where by on the internet you select a ticket and a reservation is sent to you and you then pay the full balance on the train?

How about even a system where you pay fully online if you wish and print out your own ticket? National Express can do it on their coaches, and it's standard practice with the airlines. There's a bar code on the ticket ... readable by devices that various staff have, and no doubt it could be read by the barriers at stations too.    You'd have the ability to print out train details on the same sheet as the barcode, make TAILORED references to how it could and could not be used - so it would be more understandable for the irregular traveller, and more efficient too - freeing up revenue collection / protection staff to help the confused, and ensure that the "try-not-to-pay" brigade found their attempts less fruitful.

[Jez]

Seems to me this was the train company's error, not the passenger, by printing her the wrong itinerary against the train she was booked onto.

Although it quite clearly states on the advance tickets that you need to stick to the trains allocated, my parents were travelling back from Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central one Saturday evening and because they arrived at the station quite early they were told there was no problem them getting on an earlier train to the one they were booked onto since it would get them home quicker. So its entirely up to the train manager.

[Super Guard]

Firstly lets get one thing clear, it's not a fine or a penalty fare, it's a new ticket.
When you buy an Advance ticket it is clearly stated that you must stick to your booked train, as for the staff saying she could get on the next train who know's? she may have just said "whens the next train to London" without mentioning tickets, I see it every day, I've had people get on at places like Hayle (which is unmanned) and people have said "the man at the station said I could get this train"!! I'm sure fellow TM^‡(resolve)'s and Conductors and revenue staff on this forum can recall many similar stories!!

If we get requests on the platform, we always refer them to speak to the TM/Conductor as ultimately they will make the decision on the ticket being valid or not.  If a genuine cock-up/disruption has occurred, we will speak to the TM personally to make sure it's ok.

[vacman]

Yes, vacman, I do sympathise with you regarding 'scroats' - but here, we're apparently talking about some dear old lady of 75:

Trust me, age means nothing, some of the most awkward customers are senior citizens, there is a regular fare evader in the west who is over 70, forever making excuses, no money-ticket, one thing you learn on the railway and that is never judge a book by it's cover, i've come across "chavs" who have been polite and helpful, the very worst dodgers are men between 20-30 in suits and highly paid! a colleague of mine was assaulted by a 68 year old bloke the other day who was refusing to pay!

[Chris from Nailsea]

Fair comment, vacman - point taken!