Should a future direct service stop at Didcot, or not?

[whole diary]

[willc]

it kind of confirms my cynical view that once Thames Trains and Great Western came under the same company, the Bristol to Oxford was taken off to save operating costs,

I think I've had to dispel this myth before, but the Oxford-Bristol service was withdrawn in May 2003, a full year before FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Link came into existence.

If East-West ever happens, the population of Didcot is projected to be in the region of 35,000 people by 2016. If you're a train operator looking for revenue, you won't be bypassing that opportunity, even if it does cost a few minutes for a reversal.

[Deltic]

Not necessarily.  Gloucester (population 123,000) lost (almost) all of its calls on the Cross Country services a few years ago.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hi, Deltic, and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! 

[John R]

it kind of confirms my cynical view that once Thames Trains and Great Western came under the same company, the Bristol to Oxford was taken off to save operating costs,

I think I've had to dispel this myth before, but the Oxford-Bristol service was withdrawn in May 2003, a full year before FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Link came into existence.

If East-West ever happens, the population of Didcot is projected to be in the region of 35,000 people by 2016. If you're a train operator looking for revenue, you won't be bypassing that opportunity, even if it does cost a few minutes for a reversal.

If by any chance that operator wasn't the holder of the Greater Western franchise, then there could be an interesting debate to be had re ORCATS^▸ (Operational Research Computerised Allocation of Tickets to Services). If the service stopped at Didcot, it would pick up a sizeable chunk of FGW (or whoever's)income from Swindon to Didcot and Didcot to Oxford, even if it didn't carry a single passenger between Swindon and Oxford. And if I understand ORCATS correctly it would take a tiny slice of the income of any passenger travelling from west of Swindon to east of Didcot. So quite lucrative then.

So I would expect the operator to want to call at Didcot, and the holder of the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise not to want it to call there.

[willc]

Not necessarily.  Gloucester (population 123,000) lost (almost) all of its calls on the Cross Country services a few years ago.

But the issue at Gloucester is not population size, simply the layout of the railway lines and the position of the station and the time penalty that imposes, due to the trundle to and from the station on the triangle and the crew having to change ends. Didcot station is effectively one side of the triangle there, so trains reversing there would suffer a far smaller little time penalty than at Gloucester.

The maps on the East-West consortium site make it quite clear that they see Didcot as a key calling point, see http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/route/maps.php but when it will happen is anyone's guess, given the recession and the lack of funds from housing developers in Milton Keynes that they seem to be are relying on for much of the money needed.

[eightf48544]

Not sure why Est West consortium want to stop at Didcot unless it's a terminal station on one of their services.

Thinking about it if they run a Northamton/Bedford Swindon/ Bristol service then Oxford is logical change for Reading/London and Swindon for Melksham/Brisot/S Wales/Golden Valley. There is no reason for them to call at Didcot.

The one thing that seems lacking in East Wests plans is a how do they serve Blechley? I've always thought that if the flyover has to be rebuilt (concrete cancer) then it should have high level platforms so that there is an interchange with th though Bedford trains and WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) in both directions. Otherwise all services from Oxford to Bedford have to trundle up to Milton Keynes and reverse.

[willc]

If you had bothered to look at the maps, particularly the 2031 variant, then you would see that among the projected services is a stopper terminating at Didcot, but the map also makes clear they see the semi-fasts calling there on their way to and from west, the reasons being obvious enough - connections for express services to Bristol and south Wales and, most importantly, revenue from the park-and-ride magnet that is Didcot Parkway, never mind all the people who will actually be living in the town.

But, in the context of this thread, there is another factor - providing local transport. When the Oxford-Bristols were operating, it was always envisaged that they would be the trains providing a service at reopened stations at Wantage Road and Corsham, not expresses to and from London.

For anyone trying to travel from Wantage Road to Reading and London, the ability to change at Didcot would be crucial, as well as linking fast-growing Wantage and Grove to Didcot, now the key shopping town for much of south Oxfordshire and the Vale of White Horse.

Had either station actually been built, then the Oxford-Bristol service might have survived - at any rate, two stations on the main line would have been far harder to deny a decent service to than somewhere beginning with M.

[paul7575]

There nothing in 'East West Rail's published plans about services south of Oxford, indeed the Grip 3 report does say 'Services extending beyond Oxford or Milton Keynes were not to be considered', and although Northampton was then mentioned as one of their proposals, it has now been discounted.

It seems they are yet to decide between the two options remaining, that would be a Grip Stage 4 decision IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)...

The Regional Rail option would provide:
^ 2 trains per hour from Oxford to Milton Keynes stopping at Islip (occasionally),
Bicester and Bletchley
^ 1 train per hour from Bedford to Bletchley stopping at Woburn Sands
^ a two hourly stopping service from Bedford to Bletchley.

The Local Rail option would provide
^ 1 train per hour Oxford to Milton Keynes stopping at Islip (occasionally),
Bicester, Winslow, Bletchley and Milton Keynes
^ 1 train per hour Oxford to Bedford stopping at Islip (occasionally), Bicester,
Newton Longville, Bletchley and Woburn Sands
^ 1 train per hour Aylesbury to Milton Keynes stopping at Aylesbury Vale
Parkway, Winslow and Bletchley
^ a two hourly stopping service from Bedford to Bletchley

Regarding Bletchley, there are definitely new platforms at flyover level planned.

At Bletchley a new arrangement is proposed between the flyover and the connections
to Bedford and Denbigh Hall. A new island station is proposed at high level to be
constructed on the retained embankment section of the flyover at the location currently
occupied by Summit of Flyover Junction. The track will be bi-directional and provide
for running to and from either Milton Keynes or Bedford on both platform faces.

http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/reports/documents/GRIP3FinalReport.pdf

Obviously if the project ever gets off the ground, there may well be possibilities to extend services south of Oxford, but I don't think anything should be assumed as of now.

Paul

[Deltic]

Is the issue at Didcot not exactly the same as Gloucester.  Swindon to Oxford trains could either take the avoiding line or to call at the stations, they need to reverse and the crew to change ends.  The question is, "Is the time penalty worth it for the extra revenue to be gained by calling at this station, bearing in mind this might make all journeys not to / changing at Didcot longer and potentially uncompetitive.  For me, if the station at Grove / Wantage Road is not re-opened then there is already a good service frequency Swindon - Didcot and Didcot - Oxford provided by existing services. 

All of this is probably for some time considerably in the future, sadly.

[Btline]

I agree. I don't feel that the journey time should be compromised. Miss it out. As I've said, all the connexions are still available from Swindon or Oxford.

[willc]

As I said, it's quite different from Gloucester. The station is right at the junction, with minimal running time to get and on off the main lines. You make it sound as though the crew would be walking the length of something like a Eurostar, rather than a humble DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit), which you could turn round inside five minutes.

It's not as if the direct curve from Foxhall junction is laid out for fast running anyway, more like something a bit above walking pace, just like the approach or exit from the station for Oxford route trains.

And whether any of you like it or not, no train operator of any inter-regional service going that way is going to miss out a growing town which is the key transport hub in that part of Oxfordshire, with 1,100 parking spaces already (almost double the number available at Swindon), and the county council investing ^5.4m in the forecourt to create better pick-up and drop-off and bus facilities.

[thetrout]

I still think there should be a Bristol > London Service calling at Bath Spa > Bradford-on-Avon (SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)) > Trowbridge(SDO) > Westbury (Reverse) > Pewsey > Reading > London Paddington

Or (Grahame may like this one)

Bristol Temple Meads > Bath Spa > Bradford-On-Avon (SDO) > Trowbridge (SDO) > Westbury (Reverse) > Melksham (SDO) > Chippenham > Swindon > Didcot Parkway (Every other service) > Reading > London Paddingtion...

There would almost certainly be demand for it... as if you want to go to London from Trowbridge or Bradford-on-Avon you have to change at Westbury, Bath Spa or Salisbury (Waterloo) (Much cheaper than FGW^▸ (First Great Western))

You can go direct into Waterloo but there are only 2 or 3 trains a day and it takes much much longer...! But is much cheaper too (and more punctual)

[Btline]

Do these station need a direct service to London? Surely connexions at Swindon, etc.

[Phil]

Nice idea. I use the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) Westbury - Salisbury - Waterloo service you mention at least a couple of times a month, often more, but usually return FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Paddington - Pewsey - Westbury as there's no straightforward service back (unless I spend a very long day in London) (and we'll gloss over the fact that rather than drive to Westbury, I used to be able to both leave from and get back to Melksham not so very long ago... grrr)

[devon_metro]

I still think there should be a Bristol > London Service calling at Bath Spa > Bradford-on-Avon (SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)) > Trowbridge(SDO) > Westbury (Reverse) > Pewsey > Reading > London Paddington

Or (Grahame may like this one)

Bristol Temple Meads > Bath Spa > Bradford-On-Avon (SDO) > Trowbridge (SDO) > Westbury (Reverse) > Melksham (SDO) > Chippenham > Swindon > Didcot Parkway (Every other service) > Reading > London Paddingtion...

There would almost certainly be demand for it... as if you want to go to London from Trowbridge or Bradford-on-Avon you have to change at Westbury, Bath Spa or Salisbury (Waterloo) (Much cheaper than FGW^▸ (First Great Western))

You can go direct into Waterloo but there are only 2 or 3 trains a day and it takes much much longer...! But is much cheaper too (and more punctual)

Cant imagine there is demand for an off peak service of such a nature. Perhaps a peak Taunton - London:

Taunton, Castle Cary, Frome, Westbury, Trowbridge, Melksham, Chippenham, Swindon, Didcot, Reading, London