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Author Topic: Dangerously overcrowded train?  (Read 11645 times)
woody
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« on: December 06, 2008, 09:36:02 pm »

At what point is a train considered dangerously overcrowded.Today I saw the 1406 Paddington/Penzance (departs Plymouth at 1726) leaving Plymouth full and standing with as many as 30 or 40 odd people standing in one coach alone after picking up 300 to 400 at Plymouth on their way home to Cornwall after a days shopping in Plymouth.Not an unusual  situation on Saturday services between Cornwall and Plymouth.Believe you me the overcrowding on some services in the far west now is as bad as anywhere.What is the answer,more trains or price people off them?
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ReWind
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2008, 09:55:25 pm »

The answer should be more carriages.

The problem with this though, is that in Devon & Cornwall you have set sections of line in which DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) units operate on regulary, for example Exeter-Paignton, Plymouth - Penzance and the branches.

The question that arises is Where would extra units come from, to support services in Peak hours?

Everything is very localised in Devon and Cornwall
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chrisoates
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2008, 10:50:58 pm »

More carriages would be nice - even the correct amount would do.
That particular overcrowded service would have been an 8 car HST (High Speed Train) so not much to be done there.

I see in future when XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) start turning around their (mostly shortened units) at Plymouth there won't even be reservations through Cornwall.

I can imagine what it was like at Plymouth today, I've been vertically accommodated from Exeter to St Erth when even more crammed on at Plymouth.

I've been at Truro when the afternoon single car has turned up rammed and the awaiting hoard wouldn't even let off de-trainers before squeezing aboard - doors were locked and it sat there until BTP (British Transport Police) arrived and sorted out the mess.
Someones Granny was crushed in the car whilst her family were on the platform, nobody was very willing to get off...not very dignified way to travel.

Don't for God's sake complain about overcrowding though - see what's happened on Plymouth buses - parents complained about overcrowding on school buses so the drivers now count up how many are on board and when full refuse to sell tickets so the excess kids get left at the bus stop.

     

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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2008, 12:16:27 am »

At what point is a train considered dangerously overcrowded.

There is no such definition. There is a point at which a train becomes 'crowded' but no definition as to 'overcrowding', and no definition as to 'dangerous' - the Train Manager or Driver (in DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) cases) carries the authority to refuse travel, but given the very nature of the situation, it is rarely enforced.
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G.Uard
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2008, 06:45:47 am »

Spot on, there is no official definition.  That said, guards are encouraged to call Control when trains are 'full and standing'; the current favoured terminology for crush situations. One school of thought actually considers that crammed trains are safer, as pax are less likely to be thrown around in the event of mishap.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2008, 11:58:05 am »

At what point is a train considered dangerously overcrowded.Today I saw the 1406 Paddington/Penzance (departs Plymouth at 1726) leaving Plymouth full and standing with as many as 30 or 40 odd people standing in one coach alone after picking up 300 to 400 at Plymouth on their way home to Cornwall after a days shopping in Plymouth.Not an unusual  situation on Saturday services between Cornwall and Plymouth.Believe you me the overcrowding on some services in the far west now is as bad as anywhere.What is the answer,more trains or price people off them?

We can only blame Alistair Darling for getting into those shops to save 2.5%

It simply cannot be missed!! I saved a collosal 43p whilst in Paignton yesterday  Cheesy
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Exeter
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2008, 03:14:55 pm »

Overcrowded from Plymouth!  It wasn't that good from Reading either!  I had the misfortune to travel on it from Paddington through to Exeter and to say it was "full and standing" would be an understatement. Fair play to the Train manager though, he announced before leaving Paddington that he expected the train to be busy and asked people to remove bags and coats from empty seats. After Reading he came through and enforced it and ensured that every seat was occupied by a passenger and not a bag! His approach was authorative, straight to the point and very politely put, but you could tell that some people did not appreciate having someone sit next to them; why are these people so inconsiderate and have to be told these things? Even so, when I fought my way to the buffet I still think there was about 90 to 100 people standing. Based on what happened at Plymouth as well its not extra coaches that are needed - its extra trains.   
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devon_metro
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2008, 03:21:11 pm »

TRains from Paddington to the West are always busy on weekends and Friday evenings. 1803/1903 from Paddington on Fridays are killers!
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John R
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 03:47:24 pm »

Overcrowded from Plymouth!  It wasn't that good from Reading either!  I had the misfortune to travel on it from Paddington through to Exeter and to say it was "full and standing" would be an understatement. Fair play to the Train manager though, he announced before leaving Paddington that he expected the train to be busy and asked people to remove bags and coats from empty seats. After Reading he came through and enforced it and ensured that every seat was occupied by a passenger and not a bag! His approach was authorative, straight to the point and very politely put, but you could tell that some people did not appreciate having someone sit next to them; why are these people so inconsiderate and have to be told these things? Even so, when I fought my way to the buffet I still think there was about 90 to 100 people standing. Based on what happened at Plymouth as well its not extra coaches that are needed - its extra trains.   

Welcome to the Forum Exeter.

I'm glad to hear that the TM(resolve) was proactive in reclaiming seats for passengers, and I wish it was done a little more often.   
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Timmer
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2008, 04:38:58 pm »

London-West Country trains have always been busy for as long as I can remember. Where as Bristol and South Wales services have seen their frequency doubled to every half hour not much has changed in service frequency for trains west of Exeter.
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moonrakerz
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2008, 05:07:57 pm »

Spot on, there is no official definition. 

But there is for farm livestock !
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woody
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 08:21:10 pm »

According to a friend of mine who travelled on it today the situation was repeated this morning on the 0830 Penzance/Paddington as Cornish shoppers again headed for Plymouth.The HST (High Speed Train) was jam-packed to Plymouth  then departed half empty onward towards London.Local travel from the West between Cornwall and Plymouth certainly seems to be booming in contrast to local travel from Devon into Plymouth which never seems to be anywhere near that of the Cornish commute.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2008, 08:53:50 pm »

Most people in Devon head for Exeter as it is much faster.
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ReWind
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2008, 09:02:02 pm »

Isn't some of the line imbetween Plymouth and Penzance still single track?

Therefore not much room for extra capacity!
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woody
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2008, 09:14:38 pm »

Most people in Devon head for Exeter as it is much faster.
If your in Devon driving to Plymouth down the Dual A38 is the prefered choice for most commuters from Devon into Plymouth as its much quicker than rail whereas Exeter as you say has a good rail service from many parts of Devon.
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