Christmas and Boxing Day trains - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[The SprinterMeister]

The murmurings over the validity of a Boxing Day service have slowly increased over the years. I know that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would like to provide a service as there is money to be had from people travelling to sports events, Boxing Day sales, and wanting to get home from a Christmas break. I could see a limited service working quite well over time.

The recent failed driver harmonisation package did include provision to mean drivers would be obliged to work Boxing Day (at an enhanced rate), so it's clearly on the agenda.

Not sure what the position is regarding the restructuring at the moment, but I can tell you that a great many drivers saw through the ruse in the Harmonisation package that allowed for Xmas day / Boxing day working and this influenced a great many of them to vote no. Even running trains on Boxing day could prove to be highly unpopular.

[super tm]

This once again demonstrates the problem of having a franchise.  Times are changing and there may be a case of having a service on at least Boxing day.  However the franchise has been signed on the basis of no service on these two days.  If you want a service on these days it will cost more money in subsidy and would require negotiation with the government giving more money out. (Which they will not want to be seen doing)

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) the next round of franchises will have a boxing day service included so in the years to come we may see some changes.

[12hoursunday]

The murmurings over the validity of a Boxing Day service have slowly increased over the years. I know that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would like to provide a service as there is money to be had from people travelling to sports events, Boxing Day sales, and wanting to get home from a Christmas break. I could see a limited service working quite well over time.

The recent failed driver harmonisation package did include provision to mean drivers would be obliged to work Boxing Day (at an enhanced rate), so it's clearly on the agenda.

Not sure what the position is regarding the restructuring at the moment, but I can tell you that a great many drivers saw through the ruse in the Harmonisation package that allowed for Xmas day / Boxing day working and this influenced a great many of them to vote no. Even running trains on Boxing day could prove to be highly unpopular.

And quite rightly so!


This is a subject that still stands the hairs up on the HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) boys (and girls) backs. A while ago this group of drivers once enjoyed the 25th and 26th December off with pay with nothing for those two days taken from the holiday entitlement. Anyone who wanted to work them were paid time +3/4 and a day of in lieu (attractive eh!). Sadly this has all gone but is still not forgotten and is a bowl of contention amonst us High Speeders!!(at Bristol it is anyway!)

[12hoursunday]

This once again demonstrates the problem of having a franchise.  Times are changing and there may be a case of having a service on at least Boxing day.  However the franchise has been signed on the basis of no service on these two days.  If you want a service on these days it will cost more money in subsidy and would require negotiation with the government giving more money out. (Which they will not want to be seen doing)

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) the next round of franchises will have a boxing day service included so in the years to come we may see some changes.

Their already talking about never mind waiting for a new round of franchising. Christmas working is just around the corner my friend, and could be as early as next year. Network Rail have mooted this and only a couple of months ago it was reported as being so in a broadsheet, the name of which I fail to remember. There will be no re-negotiation of subsidies because the routes that will require it won't be having a service!

[G.Uard]

Woo hoo!, triple time and no nasty dry turkey or unpleasant relatives.  Perhaps Christmas trains would attract a premium fare.

[Electric train]

From my distant past memory I recall the main reason why BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) stopped Christmas and Boxing day services, I think about 25 years ago, because it was uneconomic at the time very few people wanting to use the services and with at that time low numbers of passengers, freight, news paper & parcel and Royal Mail trains over that period it was also seen as a good time to do a number of major engineering jobs that otherwise would have been disruptive.

The Panel Signal Boxes, Electrical Control Rooms and IECC^▸ (Integrated Electronic Control Centre)'s have always been maned over Christmas. 

For a Christmas and Boxing day services to operate NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and more specifically the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s would have to be convinced that they could earn revenue to cover the cost, may be we the railways are in a better place than 25 years ago with regards people wanting to use us over these two days.

[willc]

From my distant past memory I recall the main reason why BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) stopped Christmas and Boxing day services, I think about 25 years ago,

Last Christmas Day trains were actually in 1964 or thereabouts. BR then had a brief flirtation with Boxing Day services, as your suggest, in the early 1980s, but the numbers just didn't stack up. That said, the level of Sunday afternoon and evening passenger traffic in those days was nothing like it is today, so perhaps running on Boxing Day for people heading back after visiting the family may be worth another try on a limited basis.

Even National Express doesn't bother running coaches on Christmas Day and Stagecoach charges a cool ^25 one way fare on the handful of Oxford Tube coaches it will run.

[Super Guard]

I would expect any new drivers/guards/station contracts will have Xmas working written in (mine does at double time premium + day holiday in lieu).  While I disagree and do not see the need on Christmas day, I can see a Boxing day service coming, and as G.uard says, with my family, I would be the first one down to book on 

I suppose it is down to the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to be convinced that the premium payments + extra holidays days will be worth the revenue.

[12hoursunday]

Woo hoo!, triple time and no nasty dry turkey

I would expect any new drivers/guards/station contracts will have Xmas working written in

I suppose it is down to the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to be convinced that the premium payments + extra holidays days will be worth the revenue.

G.Uard, You write any new Drivers/Guards will have new contracts with the 25th & 26th working in it. But I think you are missing the point. As I see it if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) decided to run trains on these days anyone who would have been rostered to work would be expected to work. High Speed drivers used to be booked off with pay on these days with no loss of their holiday entiltement. However volunters were always asked for and part and parcel for some people working (usually the older single men with no families) was the attractive terms offered. These have all but disappered. Now let's say that next year they decide they will run trains over Christmas and they are unable to get the volunters required, It will be the booked men who would have had work those trains had it been normal day of the week whether they were a new driver on the job or not. The only way to be sure of one or both of these days off would be to apply for a leave day from the entitlement which can only be done at midnight on the 25th and 26th of June at the earliest. At Bristol then you have to be within the first four (7 on a Saturday) to apply to be absolutly certain of getting those days off (unless of course they fell on a Sunday. However if the main drivers trade union had their way even that could change!)

[The SprinterMeister]

This once again demonstrates the problem of having a franchise.  Times are changing and there may be a case of having a service on at least Boxing day.  However the franchise has been signed on the basis of no service on these two days.  If you want a service on these days it will cost more money in subsidy and would require negotiation with the government giving more money out. (Which they will not want to be seen doing)

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) the next round of franchises will have a boxing day service included so in the years to come we may see some changes.

The only problem is as myself and 12hoursunday have pointed out is that the companies would need to negotiate an agreement with the staff. This sort of thing cannot be imposed without stirring up a hornets nest. I don't think you will find that there are that many of the older hands that are that keen to work Xmas day / Boxing day, irrespective of how many days in lieu or multiples of the base salary you throw at the problem.

Suspect it will all fall into the 'too difficult' area and not bothered with in all honesty.

[super tm]

I would expect any new drivers/guards/station contracts will have Xmas working written in (mine does at double time premium + day holiday in lieu).  While I disagree and do not see the need on Christmas day, I can see a Boxing day service coming, and as G.uard says, with my family, I would be the first one down to book on 

I suppose it is down to the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to be convinced that the premium payments + extra holidays days will be worth the revenue.

Changes to contract can only be done with the agreement of the unions.  HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) drivers do have a xmas / boxing day agreement effectively written as they must use A/L days for thoses two days.  Also there are drivers already working in the depots at Paddington, Bristol, Swansea and Plymouth on those two days.  They are filled by volunteer but if there are not enough volunteers then they will roster a driver to work.  As double time is on offer I have yet to see any problem covering these turns 

[gaf71]

As a railway worker who doesn't get any bank holiday off, is it ok if i have xmas day and boxing day off? Using two days of my annual holiday entitlement of course... Sorry to be sarcastic...Merry Xmas!

[G.Uard]

Woo hoo!, triple time and no nasty dry turkey

I would expect any new drivers/guards/station contracts will have Xmas working written in

I suppose it is down to the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to be convinced that the premium payments + extra holidays days will be worth the revenue.

G.Uard, You write any new Drivers/Guards will have new contracts with the 25th & 26th working in it. But I think you are missing the point. As I see it if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) decided to run trains on these days anyone who would have been rostered to work would be expected to work. High Speed drivers used to be booked off with pay on these days with no loss of their holiday entiltement. However volunters were always asked for and part and parcel for some people working (usually the older single men with no families) was the attractive terms offered. These have all but disappered. Now let's say that next year they decide they will run trains over Christmas and they are unable to get the volunters required, It will be the booked men who would have had work those trains had it been normal day of the week whether they were a new driver on the job or not. The only way to be sure of one or both of these days off would be to apply for a leave day from the entitlement which can only be done at midnight on the 25th and 26th of June at the earliest. At Bristol then you have to be within the first four (7 on a Saturday) to apply to be absolutly certain of getting those days off (unless of course they fell on a Sunday. However if the main drivers trade union had their way even that could change!)

'Twas not I


I had prepared a diatribe slating those who wished to impose on our measly 2 days off, (for which we use a compulsory 2 annual leave days).   However, I thought of colleagues on Frost Watch at enhanced rates, remembered past 'festive' activities and changed my post at the last minute.

Merry Christmas and Bah Humbug! to you all. 

[Electric train]

As a railway worker who doesn't get any bank holiday off, is it ok if i have xmas day and boxing day off? Using two days of my annual holiday entitlement of course... Sorry to be sarcastic...Merry Xmas!

I had a contract like that with a previous railway employer the only three days stated in the contract as being public / bank holidays was Christmas, boxing and new years day the rest I apply for as leave if I wanted the day off or even worse was forced to take as leave if there was not work to do, like I said now an ex employer.

I am sure the traveling public do not realise that the railways are a 24 hour a day 365 day operation with a lot of employees working some very unsociable hours

[thetrout]

I don't think a xmas day service would be necessary but a boxing day limited service might prove useful for those that cannot drive. Although with engineering works over the christmas break, it could cause delays to the works and then cause delays for the normal service on the 27th