Cross Country Diagramming

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

Todays 1644 Bristol - Penzance was 4 car. Whilst waiting for the 1714 to Paignton the crowd of roughly 150+ people on platform 12 had no hope in hell of getting on this service and subsequently the 1714 to Paignton was also packed out. The 1714 ended up going in front of the 1644. I find the fact that peak hour trains are running about packed to the rafters (people were being turned away and crammed into First Class vestibules) whilst mid-day High Speed Trains with over 500 seats are running about transporting air is ridiculous!!! The HST^▸ (High Speed Train) diagrams in my opinion are quite frankly hopeless and don't serve any of the real demand in the South West!

[paul7575]

The HST^▸ (High Speed Train) diagrams in my opinion are quite frankly hopeless and don't serve any of the real demand in the South West!

That is because the HST diagrams are not intended to meet the peak demand in the SW, they are timed (as the timetable shows) for the peak demand in the section through Bristol/Birmingham/Derby/Sheffield/Leeds, southbound in am, northbound in pm. 

The requirement was described in the franchise briefing, and again in the franchise award announcement, as follows:

Bidders were asked to submit two proposals, one of which  required delivery of a minimum of approximately 30% increase in capacity measured in terms of number of seats provided on the central, most congested section of the franchise. Arriva will deliver 35% exta capacity - nearly 3000 seats on key routes - by June 2009 with most of the extra seats being provided by December 2008.

Proposal A was basically 'do nothing' - Proposal B was as above.

Paul

[Btline]

Of course, if Virgin had more Pendolinos to run their B'ham to Scotland service, there would be more double Voyagers.

[eightf48544]

Of course, if Virgin had more Pendolinos to run their B'ham to Scotland service, there would be more double Voyagers.

Basically it comes down to the same thing there just isn't enough stock on BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) to meet the demand. Until some new build comes into service tinkering with diagrams will not have much effect. Unfortuantely because we haven't electrified this new build will have to be diesel.

[John R]

Of course, if Virgin had more Pendolinos to run their B'ham to Scotland service, there would be more double Voyagers.

Unfortuantely because we haven't electrified this new build will have to be diesel.

Not sure I understand this. The whole of this route is electrified, which is why it is so absurd (if not a scandal) that thirsty diesel trains are running 13 return trips a day over a 300 mile route. That's around 50,000 miles a week or 2.6million miles a year. (I understand the first northbound working is indeed a Pendo, but only for positioning.)

Building around 10 extra Pendolinos (maybe 7 coach sets), would enable a useful cascade to take place. Even better, electrify Preston to Manchester and build electric stock for the TP service to Scotland and that would enable a further cascade (or more likely, simply solve TP's rolling stock shortage). This latter stock could be 100mph Desiro, though with an Inter-City interior, not the 2+3 seating on the current build. 

 

[eightf48544]

Of course, if Virgin had more Pendolinos to run their B'ham to Scotland service, there would be more double Voyagers.

Unfortuantely because we haven't electrified this new build will have to be diesel.

Not sure I understand this. The whole of this route is electrified, which is why it is so absurd (if not a scandal) that thirsty diesel trains are running 13 return trips a day over a 300 mile route. That's around 50,000 miles a week or 2.6million miles a year. (I understand the first northbound working is indeed a Pendo, but only for positioning.)

Building around 10 extra Pendolinos (maybe 7 coach sets), would enable a useful cascade to take place. Even better, electrify Preston to Manchester and build electric stock for the TP service to Scotland and that would enable a further cascade (or more likely, simply solve TP's rolling stock shortage). This latter stock could be 100mph Desiro, though with an Inter-City interior, not the 2+3 seating on the current build. 

 

Take your point re extra Pendolinos for Birmingham Glasgow but I was meaning in general terms because we haven't electrified  elsewhere eg Manchester Preston as you mentioned a lot of the new bulid will need to be diesel to give the capacity required on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) in teh SW.

[John R]

Of course as the Pendos are built in Euroland they will be much more expensive now, so I can't even see the option for a further order which is built into the current build being exercised. (In the same way that the 4th coach for the Class 185 is now unlikely to go ahead.)