A scope for better use of this station?

[grahame]

I was going to post this as a "where am I" competition in the lighter side; I'm staying at s hotel within 150 yards of where I took all these pictures just a few minutes ago.   But it's not funny - a busy pub, a bustling hotel, a clearly properous supermarket, pedestrian crossing, bus lane ...





... and on the other hand this awfully dark and muddy pass through which even I felt I wouldn't be safe going through, and a depressing station.





On - yes - it IS in England and the station IS on the National Rail network and open.

[John R]

Denton or Reddish South?

[grahame]

Denton or Reddish South?

My goodness - that was FAST

[John R]

Unlike the train service.....

Happened to travel on diverted XC services that way last January. Made me think what a scheduled service could do, if nothing else, improving Stockport to Stalybridge and then TP connections.

[relex109]

to be fair it was recently discussed on another topic  but from me graham thankyou for these pictures from my home land 

[Lee]

I have received this from Andrew Gwynne, MP for Denton & Reddish, and the head of the SOS - Save Our Stations campaign:

Thank you for the photographs of Denton Station. 

Following on from the successful campaign to keep the two stations open, we have managed to establish a successful and thriving ‘Friends of South Reddish Station’.  Tameside MBC has conducted a report looking into the possibility of some form of park and ride scheme at Denton Station and there was a commitment as part of the TIF bid for Greater Manchester for a strategic review into reopening the line fully for train services into Manchester Victoria.  Despite an 83% ‘No’ vote in the referendum against the TIF bid – which was more to do with voting ‘no’ to a congestion charge than transport investment – I’m urging transport bosses to continue with the review.

Separate to all this has been the interest of a private transport company called Tram Power, which has plans to possibly convert the line from South Reddish to Manchester Victoria to light rail and are currently in discussions with GMPTE regarding this.  The business case would rely on strategic park and ride at Denton and Ashton Moss, where there would be a new station, which roughly correspond with Junctions 23 and 24 of the M60.

So, as you can see, although there is nothing concrete and we are still served by a ‘ghost’ train - which now runs on Fridays instead of Saturdays so we can’t run the popular folk train events where we were getting about 60-70 people travelling to Stalybridge Buffet Bar on a Saturday morning – there is an emphasis now on transport bosses looking at the line and stations seriously as a way of solving the area’s transport deficiencies.

[Phil]

Nice work, Lee - well done mate.

Also, I find this particularly interesting

So, as you can see, although there is nothing concrete and we are still served by a ‘ghost’ train - which now runs on Fridays instead of Saturdays so we can’t run the popular folk train events where we were getting about 60-70 people travelling to Stalybridge Buffet Bar on a Saturday morning – there is an emphasis now on transport bosses looking at the line and stations seriously as a way of solving the area’s transport deficiencies.

Can't help but wonder if we couldn't look into organising some folk or jazz music trains to and from Melksham. For a start, it could be a lot of fun - and if the above is anything to go by it might also focus the "transport bosses" attention on us, which is no bad thing!

[Lee]

Its a good idea, and it would be nice to get something like that up and running. It is also said that, as is the case with the Stockport-Stalybridge route, all the major players agree on the need for an appropriate TransWilts service.

However, what is happening there also acts as a warning.

Following on from the successful campaign to keep the two stations open, we have managed to establish a successful and thriving ‘Friends of South Reddish Station’. 

So, as you can see, although there is nothing concrete and we are still served by a ‘ghost’ train - which now runs on Fridays instead of Saturdays so we can’t run the popular folk train events where we were getting about 60-70 people travelling to Stalybridge Buffet Bar on a Saturday morning – there is an emphasis now on transport bosses looking at the line and stations seriously as a way of solving the area’s transport deficiencies.

So, a group was set up to promote even this most sparse of services, and finds a successful way of doing so. Then something rather strange happens.

The timings are moved from this:

Saturday Only - Stockport 1128, Reddish South 1132, Denton 1137, Guide Bridge 1142, Stalybridge 1148.

To this:

Friday only - Stockport 0922, Reddish South 0926, Denton 0931, Guide Bridge 0943, Stalybridge 0949.

Not only does this put the mockers on the folk train events, the service's only other real "flow" was from curious rail enthusiasts, and there has to be a possibility that both the move to Friday and the moving back of timings a couple of hours takes quite a few of them out of the equation as well.

Also, the poster at Denton station still advertises the Saturday service, which means that if you turn up there on a Saturday and trust it, then you'll have rather a long wait....

I believe that there is a term for actions like that.

[relex109]

Its a good idea, and it would be nice to get something like that up and running. It is also said that, as is the case with the Stockport-Stalybridge route, all the major players agree on the need for an appropriate TransWilts service.

However, what is happening there also acts as a warning.

Following on from the successful campaign to keep the two stations open, we have managed to establish a successful and thriving ‘Friends of South Reddish Station’. 

So, as you can see, although there is nothing concrete and we are still served by a ‘ghost’ train - which now runs on Fridays instead of Saturdays so we can’t run the popular folk train events where we were getting about 60-70 people travelling to Stalybridge Buffet Bar on a Saturday morning – there is an emphasis now on transport bosses looking at the line and stations seriously as a way of solving the area’s transport deficiencies.

So, a group was set up to promote even this most sparse of services, and finds a successful way of doing so. Then something rather strange happens.

The timings are moved from this:

Saturday Only - Stockport 1128, Reddish South 1132, Denton 1137, Guide Bridge 1142, Stalybridge 1148.

To this:

Friday only - Stockport 0922, Reddish South 0926, Denton 0931, Guide Bridge 0943, Stalybridge 0949.

Not only does this put the mockers on the folk train events, the service's only other real "flow" was from curious rail enthusiasts, and there has to be a possibility that both the move to Friday and the moving back of timings a couple of hours takes quite a few of them out of the equation as well.

Also, the poster at Denton station still advertises the Saturday service, which means that if you turn up there on a Saturday and trust it, then you'll have rather a long wait....

I believe that there is a term for actions like that.

what would happen if this train was full every week for 5 months?

[Lee]

what would happen if this train was full every week for 5 months?

That's a large part of the point. Friends of South Reddish Station tried to fill the Saturday only service through their folk train events. However, they feel that trying to get the same numbers using a Friday only service running a couple of hours earlier isnt feasible.

[relex109]

what would happen if this train was full every week for 5 months?

That's a large part of the point. Friends of South Reddish Station tried to fill the Saturday only service through their folk train events. However, they feel that trying to get the same numbers using a Friday only service running a couple of hours earlier isnt feasible.

what would happen if say 100 people had a season ticket from reddish routh to stalybridge (if you can buy one)

do the people actually have to step onto the train or is it off ticket sales

[grahame]

what would happen if this train was full every week for 5 months?

I'm afraid that "use it or loose it" is often a fallacy; this is not a unique situation.  I recall being told exactly the same thing with regard to peak hour services on the TransWilts ... and seeing traffic grow.  I travelled on the 17:05 from Melksham to Chippenham, and 17:59 return, on Friday 8th December 2006 - both trains with the majority of seats taken on 2 car sets, and that was fairly typical for these peak hour evening trains. But that was the last day these trains ran, because the actual growth figures achieved weren't considered in the decision to cut the service - a growth rate of 0.8% was ASSUMED and the hugely increased traffic that we had been asked to generate (and had been generated!) had not taken into account.

Were I a cynic I would ask:

Is "use it or loose it" a convenient way to give the protestors about the service level something to do while the powers than be get on with doing what they really want anyway?

If a "use it or loose it" suggestion does actually result in a dramatically improved use of a service, is that in itself a bit of a nuisance to the powers that be, as they then have to take further steps to kill of the newly created traffic?

You can certainly see new traffic being killed off by the switch of day and time on the Stockport to Stalybridge service, and by the moving of the remaining TransWilts morning train even earlier than had been specified originally, to give commuters to Swindon an impractically long day there.

[eightf48544]

Is "use it or loose it" a convenient way to give the protestors about the service level something to do while the powers than be get on with doing what they really want anyway?

If a "use it or loose it" suggestion does actually result in a dramatically improved use of a service, is that in itself a bit of a nuisance to the powers that be, as they then have to take further steps to kill of the newly created traffic?

You can certainly see new traffic being killed off by the switch of day and time on the Stockport to Stalybridge service, and by the moving of the remaining TransWilts morning train even earlier than had been specified originally, to give commuters to Swindon an impractically long day there.

I think the problem is that are two forces at work in the  idea.

Stockport to Stalybridge and one train a week one way is a political ruse to prevent having to put up closure notices for Denton and Reddish South. I don't think DaFt expect anyone to travel on it. I believe when it was on Friday previously if you did turn up it more likely to be a taxi.


Melksham is a slightly different case. Once again you will not use your passenger service because again it would be too unpopular and polically damaging  to put up Melksahma for closure. However, as a way of reducing costs putting on just a few trains at inconvinient times so they can say "use it or lose it" and use it as a way of cutting the service even more to one train a week one way.

How you counter that I don't know presuably just make DaFTs life as miserable as possible.

Out of interest and to do a bit of track bashing I did the afternoon Streatham Hill Tulse Hill train which takes the West curve to  Tulse Hill. I never got round it when I was on the Central.

From PUSL website:

Tulse Hill Junction - Leigham Junction (177) WF
0832 SSuX, 1556 SSuX Streatham Hill - London Bridge

Interesting to note this is now a return service. It is obviously for school children as there were quite a a number on my train (May 2005).

In actual fact it's really ECS it gets an up morning peak train from London Bridge to Streatham Hill depot and puts one back into service for the down peak.

[Lee]

Stockport to Stalybridge and one train a week one way is a political ruse to prevent having to put up closure notices for Denton and Reddish South. I don't think DaFt expect anyone to travel on it. I believe when it was on Friday previously if you did turn up it more likely to be a taxi.

Its still a great shame that the need has been felt to move the service from Saturday to Friday, effectively killing off an attempt by the locals to make use of the little service they have, draw attention to the potential usage of an improved service, and guard against a repeat of Network Rail's 2007 proposal to close Denton & Reddish South stations.

A cynic might consider that to be little more than spite.

The link below might also be of interest.
http://www.wellho.net/mouth/1999_How-low-can-you-sink-.html