XC rant thread

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

I hope they scrap the idea of electronic reservations. Virgin have!

Believe it or not, just because computers exist, it does not mean you have to use them for all tasks!

I disagree in all honesty, but thats probably because I am a computer technican

The system would work if it was properly tested with regular customer feedback before a final solution was drawn up. Electronic systems means that we don't need to waste the card printing the labels, but the problem with labels is if someone is in a "I am going to sit down mood" they can just remove the label. An electronic system prevents this.

I know the system on the Voyagers doesn't always work and people never look at the display boards anyway. I think perhaps if a system for example was installed in the seat infront that said if it was reserved or not, would work better. Or perhaps, only allowing reservations in 2 coaches, with the third coach being totally unreservable. This way if the train is busy, the TM^‡(resolve) can make an announcement saying that unreserved seating is available in coach X

What does annoy me though about seat reservations in First Class is when there is loads of empty tables, yet the person who just got on insists on sitting in their reserved seat opposite you! Which results in serious loss of leg room Now I know that it's their booked seat and they have a right to sit there, but why would you when there are loads of empty tables...

[Btline]

They do often have an "unreserved" coach.

The problem? It's always packed!

And I disagree. There are loads of problems:

*Computer breaks - no reservations

*Power, electrical failure - ditto

*It takes ages to see whether a seat is reserved or not. With cards, you can see immediately. This has lead to delays in boarding, as people are stopping in the aisles to look at the screens.

*People take no notice of them. The number of times I have had to kick someone out..... This has never happened on a card reservation.

*Ok, they can't be removed, but how often are cards removed? Not much I suspect.

Would you get out a calculator to do 2+2? So why use a computer to do reservations when cards are BETTER.

[Zoe]

Would you get out a calculator to do 2+2? So why use a computer to do reservations when cards are BETTER.

As the railways are run for profit and pressing a button is cheaper than employing a person to go through the train putting the cards in the seats.

[plymothian]

I hope they scrap the idea of electronic reservations. Virgin have!

Believe it or not, just because computers exist, it does not mean you have to use them for all tasks!

I disagree in all honesty, but thats probably because I am a computer technican

The system would work if it was properly tested with regular customer feedback before a final solution was drawn up. Electronic systems means that we don't need to waste the card printing the labels, but the problem with labels is if someone is in a "I am going to sit down mood" they can just remove the label. An electronic system prevents this.

I know the system on the Voyagers doesn't always work and people never look at the display boards anyway. I think perhaps if a system for example was installed in the seat infront that said if it was reserved or not, would work better. Or perhaps, only allowing reservations in 2 coaches, with the third coach being totally unreservable. This way if the train is busy, the TM^‡(resolve) can make an announcement saying that unreserved seating is available in coach X

What does annoy me though about seat reservations in First Class is when there is loads of empty tables, yet the person who just got on insists on sitting in their reserved seat opposite you! Which results in serious loss of leg room Now I know that it's their booked seat and they have a right to sit there, but why would you when there are loads of empty tables...

If there was a coach X there'd be plenty of room for everyone!

[inspector_blakey]

If there was a coach X there'd be plenty of room for everyone!

Not necessarily...I'm not making this up, honest.

Circa 2001, back in the glory days of Virgin XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) mk 2 stock hauled by class 47/8s (it was always nice to see a proper train rolling into Oxford station making the ground rumble, unlike the constant steam of plastic that operated all of the Thames valley services at the time) I travelled from Oxford up to Darlington on a set that appeared to have been cobbled together in a desperate attempt to operate a service rather than cancel it: 47 + 5 mk2s, labelled something along the lines of H, K, L, M, X.

Given that it was a 5 car train vice 7 car, there wasn't plenty of room!

What does annoy me though about seat reservations in First Class is when there is loads of empty tables, yet the person who just got on insists on sitting in their reserved seat opposite you! Which results in serious loss of leg room Now I know that it's their booked seat and they have a right to sit there, but why would you when there are loads of empty tables...

I don't think this rule is enforced very often, but technically if you're travelling on an AP ticket then you are actually obliged to occupy your reserved seat and no other.

[Chris from Nailsea]

As the railways are run for profit and pressing a button is cheaper than employing a person to go through the train putting the cards in the seats.

... and the very practical problems with having someone trudging the length of the train with such cards has been discussed at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2897.msg25669#msg25669 

[inspector_blakey]

I thought that now they charge ^5 for a reservation that it not made at the time of booking your ticket FGW^▸ (First Great Western) might be a bit more careful about making sure reservations are provided, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

A passenger is of course entitled to a refund of the reservation fee if such reservation is not provided (and will probably also be due for compensation under the relevant operator's passengers' charter should they have to stand).

[thetrout]

They do often have an "unreserved" coach.

The problem? It's always packed!

And I disagree. There are loads of problems:

*Computer breaks - no reservations

*Power, electrical failure - ditto

*It takes ages to see whether a seat is reserved or not. With cards, you can see immediately. This has lead to delays in boarding, as people are stopping in the aisles to look at the screens.

*People take no notice of them. The number of times I have had to kick someone out..... This has never happened on a card reservation.

*Ok, they can't be removed, but how often are cards removed? Not much I suspect.

Would you get out a calculator to do 2+2? So why use a computer to do reservations when cards are BETTER.

I don't discount any of the points you have made there because you are right. What I think I was trying to say was electronic seat reservation is easier for the company, is more environmentally friendly, can be reused. BUT they never quite thought of what the passengers wanted did they...

As I have said, It could work given a significant amount of beta testing. But it's not necessarly easier for the passengers, which, I must add, is the whole point of a passenger railway

[Zoe]

As I have said, It could work given a significant amount of beta testing. But it's not necessarly easier for the passengers, which, I must add, is the whole point of a passenger railway

The railways of Great Britain are run as a business by private companies, profit will always come first in this system.

[grahame]

... the passengers, which, I must add, is the whole point of a passenger railway ...

Eh?  Who told you that?  Priority order in our parts / on our line is:
a) Meeting the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) specification
b) Having as positive a balance sheet as possible for the Shareholders
c) Passengers

To meet (a) you have to run two trains a day, one of which has to start beween 5:30 and 7 at night.

To meet (b) you want to run with as few sets as possible, so you start one train just before 7 at night (through to twenty past eight) as - that late at night - you have a spare after all the commuters on other parts of your system have been dropped off at their home stations. And you run the other train that the DfT has asked for soon after 6 a.m., because it's not yet needed elsewhere at that time either

Which leaves nothing for the third item on the list -  (c) - the passengers.  If the service was turely being run for passengers, you would have (a sensible minimum) 06:15, 09:00, 12:00, 15:00, 17:45 and 18:45 - with the 06:15 and 18:45 being much busier that they are atthe moment because you would be offering <b>return journey opportunities which the passengers need!</b>

Yes - I did see your smiley face suggesting that the service was run for the passengers. But we all know that's not true!

[dog box]

I hope they scrap the idea of electronic reservations. Virgin have!

Believe it or not, just because computers exist, it does not mean you have to use them for all tasks!

I disagree in all honesty, but thats probably because I am a computer technican

The system would work if it was properly tested with regular customer feedback before a final solution was drawn up. Electronic systems means that we don't need to waste the card printing the labels, but the problem with labels is if someone is in a "I am going to sit down mood" they can just remove the label. An electronic system prevents this.

I know the system on the Voyagers doesn't always work and people never look at the display boards anyway. I think perhaps if a system for example was installed in the seat infront that said if it was reserved or not, would work better. Or perhaps, only allowing reservations in 2 coaches, with the third coach being totally unreservable. This way if the train is busy, the TM^‡(resolve) can make an announcement saying that unreserved seating is available in coach X

What does annoy me though about seat reservations in First Class is when there is loads of empty tables, yet the person who just got on insists on sitting in their reserved seat opposite you! Which results in serious loss of leg room Now I know that it's their booked seat and they have a right to sit there, but why would you when there are loads of empty tables...

If there was a coach X there'd be plenty of room for everyone!

There is one Floating about on an FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Hst set ..............and a note on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) superb staff ...mostly crap trains

[thetrout]

Yes - I did see your smiley face suggesting that the service was run for the passengers. But we all know that's not true!

Sorry, thats a wording error on my part. What I was trying to say is that there would be no point in running a passenger railway if you didn't have passengers in the first place.

[grahame]

Yes - I did see your smiley face suggesting that the service was run for the passengers. But we all know that's not true!

Sorry, thats a wording error on my part. What I was trying to say is that there would be no point in running a passenger railway if you didn't have passengers in the first place.

I think I should have added a  too. Sorry, your post was just such an excellent heading under which I could point out (and I see I'm not alone in pointing out) that passengers seem to come far too far down the pecking order. 

[TerminalJunkie]

What does annoy me though about seat reservations in First Class is when there is loads of empty tables, yet the person who just got on insists on sitting in their reserved seat opposite you!

Does anyone prevent you sitting somewhere else, then?

[TerminalJunkie]

Bringing back HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) - very comfortable standard class seats with a good layout of tables / airline seats, very good refurbishment in my view (other than the removal of the buffet car).

Hmm. I was sat in Coach G on the 1423 Exeter - Leeds on Tuesday. The ride was almost as bad as a 142 on the Barnstaple line...